What do you think of Turtledove's novel, HOW FEW REMAIN?

[Alternatehistorybuff5341]

What do you think of Turtledove's novel, HOW FEW REMAIN?

[robertp6165]

What do you think of Turtledove's novel, HOW FEW REMAIN?

Other than THE GUNS OF THE SOUTH, I would say its possibly Turtledove's best work. Far better than the novels from the same series which succeeded it.

[Alternatehistorybuff5341]

Other than THE GUNS OF THE SOUTH, I would say its possibly Turtledove's best work. Far better than the novels from the same series which succeeded it.


I agree. I started to read the novels after How Few Remain but I didn't liek them that much. The only negative comment about the novel that I had was the fact that Lincoln was a Socialist/Communist.

[Archangel Michael]

I agree. I started to read the novels after How Few Remain but I didn't liek them that much. The only negative comment about the novel that I had was the fact that Lincoln was a Socialist/Communist.

He did have some almost socialist tendencies to him.

How Few Remain is one of Turtledove's novels, and it's hard to believe that the rest of the series came from that book.

[Trotsky]

I agree. I started to read the novels after How Few Remain but I didn't liek them that much. The only negative comment about the novel that I had was the fact that Lincoln was a Socialist/Communist.

How is that necessarily negative?

[Zyzzyva]

I agree. I started to read the novels after How Few Remain but I didn't liek them that much. The only negative comment about the novel that I had was the fact that Lincoln was a Socialist/Communist.

Oh? I thought it was quite an imaginative idea, and for a disgraced ex-leader to become more radical out of office is hardly unheard of.

...And yes, it's the best of the TL191 books by far, and definitely one of his better works in general.

[robertp6165]

I agree. I started to read the novels after How Few Remain but I didn't liek them that much. The only negative comment about the novel that I had was the fact that Lincoln was a Socialist/Communist.

Yeah, I thought that was a bit over the top too. But much of the stuff Lincoln said in his socialist speeches in the novel was actually quoting, or paraphrasing, stuff he actually said in real life regarding slavery. So who knows? It might happen.

[Alternatehistorybuff5341]

Oh? I thought it was quite an imaginative idea, and for a disgraced ex-leader to become more radical out of office is hardly unheard of.

...And yes, it's the best of the TL191 books by far, and definitely one of his better works in general.

How is that necessarily negative?


Well, I just saw it as Negative because Communism/Socialism is one of the few Political ideals that I hate. And Lincoln is one of my Favorite presidents. Kind of an Annomoly for my brain. lol.

[Venusian Si]

It's my favorite book of HT's except for maybe The Gladiator. Still, at times I had to force myself to finish a paragraph here or there.

[robertp6165]

Well, I just saw it as Negative because Communism/Socialism is one of the few Political ideals that I hate. And Lincoln is one of my Favorite presidents. Kind of an Annomoly for my brain. lol.

So what was your favorite part of it? I liked the ATL version of Mark Twain. Some of the editorials the ATL Twain wrote could have come from the OTL Twain's own pen. Funny stuff.

[Alternatehistorybuff5341]

So what was your favorite part of it? I liked the ATL version of Mark Twain. Some of the editorials the ATL Twain wrote could have come from the OTL Twain's own pen. Funny stuff.


I liked how this was the war with the first moderni-sh form of warfare instead of World War I.

[Archangel Michael]

Well, I just saw it as Negative because Communism/Socialism is one of the few Political ideals that I hate. And Lincoln is one of my Favorite presidents. Kind of an anomaly for my brain. lol.

It's not much of a stretch to see Lincoln becoming a socialist if he survived.

I liked how this was the war with the first moderni-sh form of warfare instead of World War I.

It was very analogous to the Franco-Prussian War, which was one of the first modern wars of OTL.

[Alternatehistorybuff5341]

It's not much of a stretch to see Lincoln becoming a socialist if he survived.



It was very analogous to the Franco-Prussian War, which was one of the first modern wars of OTL.


Oh, thank you for that fact. I thought WWI was the first modern war. :).

[Trotsky]

Oh, thank you for that fact. I thought WWI was the first modern war. :).

Well, no, by some definitions that would be the American Civil War (possibly the Crimean War), the last two years of which bore several similarities to World War I.

[Archangel Michael]

Well, no, by some definitions that would be the American Civil War (possibly the Crimean War), the last two years of which bore several similarities to World War I.

Especially Sherman's March to the Sea and the Siege of Petersburg.

[Imperator Frank]

How is that necessarily negative?
agree with trotsky.

[Thucydides]

I thought that the WW1 books were the best actually. Because after that it is waaayyy to analogous to OTL.

[metalstar316]

Like the others, I thought it was the best one in the series, and I still re-read it from time to time.

The Second Mexican War was, technologically speaking, the first modern war ITTL, at least in America, because it picked up where the "War of Secession" left off. Trenches dug around Louisville, breech loading weapons & artillery, gatling guns, fixed positions, spotters, etc.

[Thande]

I thought that the WW1 books were the best actually. Because after that it is waaayyy to analogous to OTL.

While your second part is dead right, I preferred How Few Remain to the WW1 books: maybe it's just because he was using well known OTL figures as viewpoint characters, but the characters are a lot more three dimensional and likeable. Basically the premise of How Few Remain let him get away with Loads And Loads Of Characters without them blurring into an incoherent mess, the way they do in e.g. Darkness or the later TL-191 books. I think Worldwar is the only series he's done where original viewpoint characters are deep enough for you not to mentally confuse them.

[Zyzzyva]

While your second part is dead right, I preferred How Few Remain to the WW1 books: maybe it's just because he was using well known OTL figures as viewpoint characters, but the characters are a lot more three dimensional and likeable. Basically the premise of How Few Remain let him get away with Loads And Loads Of Characters without them blurring into an incoherent mess, the way they do in e.g. Darkness or the later TL-191 books. I think Worldwar is the only series he's done where original viewpoint characters are deep enough for you not to mentally confuse them.

Who's a real viewpoint character in that? Molotov (or is he just VP in the sequels?) Aneilwicz (with the same caveat), and... everybody else is made up, I think.

[lothaw]

I also liked the fact that every viewpoint character How Few Remain was born and remembers when the United States was a single country.

[Dave Howery]

apparently I'm in the tiny minority here, but I liked the later books better... not that HFR was bad, just not all that. I thought it to be a bit implausible... mainly in that first the USA practically starts the war over the CSA getting it's own transcontinental railroad... really, is that a practical reason for going to war? Especially a war which is guaranteed to bring in the most powerful nation in the world against the USA? All that over a railroad? Even if the USA loses some shipping business, is it worth all that? Plus, the CSA's railroad ain't all that great. Sure, it's fine for moving people from coast to coast, but the USA's railroad led to a lot of settlement and side branches that led to more settlement. The CSA's railroad spends a good chunk of it's length in the grim deserts of Chihuahua, Sonora, and SW Texas. And the west end of it is stuck behind the Baja peninsula, Mexican territory.
But, I suppose, this second war did serve one useful literary purpose... it gave a reason for the USA to keep on hating England and France, and thus go courting Germany for an alliance. This second war took place pretty much in the middle of the ACW and WW1, so it kept the flames of hatred alive all around...

[Malta Shah]

I liked How Few Reamin for a Socialist Lincoln and many aspects.

Though my mind got a shock from all the times racist terms were used in the book.

I generally like the series, the only aspect overall that I found BLEH is his attempt at sex scenes....

[Trotsky]

How Few Remain was alright. I hated how Turtledove had to work hard to make the United States turn out to be bumbling idiots whose only successes did nothing at all to help them in the war.

[LordMoogi]

I liked How Few Reamin for a Socialist Lincoln and many aspects.

Though my mind got a shock from all the times racist terms were used in the book.

I generally like the series, the only aspect overall that I found BLEH is his attempt at sex scenes....

Same here. I genuinely like Turtledove, but the sex scenes and the racial slurs (although HT is clearly not an actual racist) do get to you after a while.

Still, HFR is probably my favourite AH novel ever, or at least tied with Guns of the South.

[Thande]

the racial slurs (although HT is clearly not an actual racist) do get to you after a while.

I am rather tempted here to turn into one of the Four Yorkshiremen ;)

I can't say any language in Turtledove's books has ever seemed in the least shocking to me, but that could be because the British Education System raised us on John Steinbeck and books about the Holocaust, with the result that every (white) kid I know has been called a nigger, kike, coon or jewboy at least twice (talk about Education Backfire...)

[Wanderlust]

It's my favourite book of that whole sorry series, though the bit with Gordon marching into the Gatling guns was pretty silly - and Teddy Roosevelt was built up into such a Mary Sue-type superhero, I wanted a bullet to smash his teeth. I was even rooting for Custer against him at several points :eek:

[zoomar]

It has flaws, but it works well as a stand-alone book and as the kickoff for the later WW1 and WW2 series. The later series exhibit Turtledove and his unedited bloatomania to their worst. I'd rather have had just two books - one on the WW1 and another on the WW2 with a lot fewer redundant details and characters.

[LordMoogi]

I can't say any language in Turtledove's books has ever seemed in the least shocking to me,

They weren't very shocking to me, but it kind of made it harder for me to empathize with some of the characters, even if it made them more realistic.

[Art]

American becomes Russia and france combined, second war is Franco-Prussian War, Kentucky-Tennesee is Alsace-Lorraine.