Welsh win at Hatfield WI

[jmberry]

Exactly what the title says. What if Cadwallon of Gwynedd had beaten Oswald and Oswy at Hatfield? Would Northumbria collapse after only a couple generations? Would the North fall back into Celtic rule? Would the Rheged states be re-established?

[robertp6165]

Exactly what the title says. What if Cadwallon of Gwynedd had beaten Oswald and Oswy at Hatfield? Would Northumbria collapse after only a couple generations? Would the North fall back into Celtic rule? Would the Rheged states be re-established?

Actually, the Welsh did win at Hatfield. They then lost at Heavenfield, so the POD you are looking for is for them to win at Heavenfield. This was the subject of the following thread, which you might find interesting.

http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=41908&highlight=hatfield+chase

[Alratan]

As I recall from looking at this, the British have a structural problem with their inheritance law, as they split their estates between the surviving children. I don't know how you'd resolve this. Increasing the Romanisation of the British elites dosen't really help with this, as Roman law prescribed their own kind of inheritance divisions, unless some tradition like fidei commissum develops, allowing the over-riding of traditional apportionment.

[jmberry]

Actually, the Welsh did win at Hatfield. They then lost at Heavenfield, so the POD you are looking for is for them to win at Heavenfield. This was the subject of the following thread, which you might find interesting.

http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=41908&highlight=hatfield+chase

Gah! I can't believe I made that mistake:o. That thread was interesting, by the way.

As I recall from looking at this, the British have a structural problem with their inheritance law, as they split their estates between the surviving children. I don't know how you'd resolve this. Increasing the Romanisation of the British elites dosen't really help with this, as Roman law prescribed their own kind of inheritance divisions, unless some tradition like fidei commissum develops, allowing the over-riding of traditional apportionment.

True, though I though Cadwallon only had one son, and I think he would have given South Rheged back to that poet-king.