Earlier civil rights movement- immediately post-WWII

[Melvin Loh]

In the immediate aftermath of WWII, the civil rights movement's roots were planted with the return of large nos. of black servicemen from overseas who were more determined to assert their civil rights after fighting for democracy abroad, and the presence of a greater recognition of greater economic and political opportunities amongst African-Americans who'd migrated to northern cities for industrial employment opportunities. This embryonic civil rights movement was manifested post-1945 by such events as a few hundred black vets demonstrating for the right to vote at the Birmingham, Alabama IIRC courthouse just after VJ Day and the boycotting in northern cities of white-owned stores which practised racial discrimination, tog with incidents as the war was drawing to a close, such as the sit-in demonstration by members of the 477th BG at Freeman Field, Indiana, to protest their exclusion on racial grounds from the officers' club in Feb 1945 and non-violent demonstrations by black workers at various industrial plants over discrimination in pay and working conditions. Of course, such incidents were met with violence by local authorities and enraged white bigots, such as when several returned black vets thruout the South, including in Mississippi and Georgia, were beaten or murdered for daring to assert their right to vote. Now, WI somehow these protests at Jim Crow had resulted in an actual fullscale flowering of the civil rights movement immediately in the post-WWII yrs ? Could the movement have flowered at this earlier stage into what it OTL became during the mid-1950s thru to early 60s ? What about the reaction of the Truman admin, would he have used the federal govt to enforce civil rights as subsequent presidents did ? This qn is as opposed to a post-WWII Red Summer which I posted about about a yr back.

[Jason Sleeman]

I believe Truman, since he desegregated the armed forces, and was by almost all accounts a fair minded man, would have enforced desegregation laws had they happened immediately following WWII Truman was himself a vet of WWI and would understand the sacrifices black soldiers made for thier country.

[Beowulf2005]

Now that would be interesting. Anybody want to try coming up with a timeline of some sort?

[Straha]

a post WWII civil rights movement? Thats but one element in my currently unnamed new timeline I've got planned. Great depressions in the 1920's and 1950's, Australian Dictator Pauline Hanson, The mexican front in both world wars and President Ray Charles..

[PaleHorseRiding]

This would subsequenly change american liberlism because the racial part would be out. U might see an earlier women rights movement and less Militant Black parties. U would also see very different leaders. This might just might make for a better America and world.

[AMBOMB]

In the immediate aftermath of WWII, the civil rights movement's roots were planted with the return of large nos. of black servicemen from overseas who were more determined to assert their civil rights after fighting for democracy abroad, and the presence of a greater recognition of greater economic and political opportunities amongst African-Americans who'd migrated to northern cities for industrial employment opportunities. This embryonic civil rights movement was manifested post-1945 by such events as a few hundred black vets demonstrating for the right to vote at the Birmingham, Alabama IIRC courthouse just after VJ Day and the boycotting in northern cities of white-owned stores which practised racial discrimination, tog with incidents as the war was drawing to a close, such as the sit-in demonstration by members of the 477th BG at Freeman Field, Indiana, to protest their exclusion on racial grounds from the officers' club in Feb 1945 and non-violent demonstrations by black workers at various industrial plants over discrimination in pay and working conditions. Of course, such incidents were met with violence by local authorities and enraged white bigots, such as when several returned black vets thruout the South, including in Mississippi and Georgia, were beaten or murdered for daring to assert their right to vote. Now, WI somehow these protests at Jim Crow had resulted in an actual fullscale flowering of the civil rights movement immediately in the post-WWII yrs ? Could the movement have flowered at this earlier stage into what it OTL became during the mid-1950s thru to early 60s ? What about the reaction of the Truman admin, would he have used the federal govt to enforce civil rights as subsequent presidents did ? This qn is as opposed to a post-WWII Red Summer which I posted about about a yr back.

What I haven't figured out is why the Holocaust didn't create the Civil Rights Movement. Why didn't this most horrible result of bigotry create a revulsion toward bigotry in the United States?

[Melvin Loh]

AMBOMB, good qn- welcome to this board.

Why the Holocaust didn't create the civil rights movement ? Well, AFAIK public knowledge of the concentration camps and Final Soln within America did create a certain sense of moral revulsion amongst Americans to the results of such intolerance, within which there were some seeds for civil rights later flowering. Hmmm, another POD- there were some concentration camps liberated by African-American combat or support troops during 1945, such as the 183rd Engineer Bn IIRC and 761st Tank Bn (BLACK PANTHERS- altho there was in 1993 a huge amount of controversy re whether these black soldiers had been involved in liberating Dachau concentration camp at all). WI there'd been more black US Army units such as the 761st which were involved in actively liberating camps like Dachau ? Could such a widespread discovery by African-American soldiers of just how far the Nazis had gone in murdering their racial enemies have possibly accelerated the development of the civil rights movement once these men went back home and got involved in advancing the movement ?

[AMBOMB]

AMBOMB, good qn- welcome to this board.

Why the Holocaust didn't create the civil rights movement ? Well, AFAIK public knowledge of the concentration camps and Final Soln within America did create a certain sense of moral revulsion amongst Americans to the results of such intolerance, within which there were some seeds for civil rights later flowering. Hmmm, another POD- there were some concentration camps liberated by African-American combat or support troops during 1945, such as the 183rd Engineer Bn IIRC and 761st Tank Bn (BLACK PANTHERS- altho there was in 1993 a huge amount of controversy re whether these black soldiers had been involved in liberating Dachau concentration camp at all). WI there'd been more black US Army units such as the 761st which were involved in actively liberating camps like Dachau ? Could such a widespread discovery by African-American soldiers of just how far the Nazis had gone in murdering their racial enemies have possibly accelerated the development of the civil rights movement once these men went back home and got involved in advancing the movement ?

Why didn't it create revulsion among whites?

[MerryPrankster]

Why didn't it create revulsion among whites?

Perhaps it was because the Holocaust victims themselves were white--if racist-leaning white Americans saw piles of emaciated blacks, blacks being herded into gas chambers, etc., they might be forced to take stock of their own behavior towards blacks.

"What makes the Holocaust different from lynching, except for the scale?" some might think.

[Melvin Loh]

Guys, what I;m saying is there WAS revulsion amongst white Americans towards the Holocaust, which DID lead to some questioning how they could fight against such an oppressive genocidal bigoted regime on 1 hand yet live in a society which tolerated race-based injustice on the other. Look at BoB Ep 9 and also the outraged reactions of white soldiers of the 42nd RAINBOW and 45th THUNDERBIRD Divs after they liberated Dachau in April 1945, resulting in the indiscriminate massacre of the SS guards. But perhaps many white Americans despite their experiences fighting Nazism took for granted the perceived 2nd-class citizen status of blacks without questioning the status quo too much, believing that their own society could never go as far as what Hitler did ?

Very interesting area of discussion, of course- I wonder whether there are any good books out there outlining the explicit links between the Final Soln and the civil rights movement ?