<Future WI> What does the 20th century hold?

[Ivan Druzhkov]

Well, today, the second month of the 20th century is in full swing, and the world is plodding on as always. The British are chewing up those ornery Boers something fierce, anti-Angloism is in full bloom in France, Kaiser Billy is working on his fleet, the Tsar is more secure than ever, and the Chinese appear to be going insane.

So, from what you see today, what does the future hold for the twentieth century?

Right now, I think that the major crisis point for the next decade will be China. With these Boxers on the loose, and the Manchoos weaker than ever, I think we may be on the cusp of the disintegration of the Chinese Empire. The European empires, including Mother Russia, will start to spread into the Chinese lands, taking over the various provinces as more colonies.

So, what does the world of tomorrow hold?

[Thande]

The American public will get tired of their government's internationalist adventures and the US will retreat into isolation, maybe eventually making their current role as a de facto protectorate of the British Empire de jure.

There'll be another Balkan War as before, with the Ottoman Empire about to disintegrate when Britain and France weigh in and stop the Russians getting Constantinople.

The French will try to have a revanche on Germany, maybe in 1920, but as for now it looks like the Kaiser's army is unbeatable.

The Boers will be defeated, maybe flee to German Southwest Africa, and the Cape Colony will become a paragon of equal relations between whites and Negroes.

The British colonies in Australia will be given dominion status like that Canada already has, but there will be at least three separate dominions: those Australian colonies are too different to get along in one government.

There will probably be a war at some point between Japan and the minor colonial powers over places like the Dutch East Indies.

Socialists may take power in one country, probably one of the more liberal ones like France, and then everyone will see what a bad idea socialism is.

[Duncan]

There will probably be a war at some point between Japan and the minor colonial powers over places like the Dutch East Indies.
Japan is a long way from the Dutch East Indies, though if the US does retreat into isolationism as you suggest, they might cast an eye on the US protectorate, or whatever the term is, in the Philippines.

More likely is a clash between Japan and Russia over interests in Manchuria. The Japanese haven't forgiven Russia for leaning on them to withdraw from Liaotong after the 1894-95 China war, and then taking partial control itself in '97. I predict a Russo-Japanese war sometime in the next decade, and no doubt the Russkis will hammer the Japs - unless Britain joins in on the Japanese side. A big Anglo-Russian war is not to be ruled out.

[Hendryk]

Writing from a French perspective, I can't be sure who my country is going to next be at war against between Britain and Germany. The incident at Fashoda was widely perceived on this side of the Channel as tantamount to a declaration of war, and anti-British feeling remains high despite recent talks of creating some form of "entente"; many people think we shouldn't have backed down, and gone on to link our Eastern African colonies with our Western African ones. Personally, I think Africa is more trouble than it's worth, but I'm clearly in the minority; now even the Radicals and some of the Socialists have gone all misty-eyed about the whole "civilizing mission" thing. I'm more interested in Indochina; these Annamites and whatnot sure are a stubborn people, but I'm confident the superior fighting strength of the Western man will soon put to rest any thought of resistance against our benign overlordship.
Generally speaking, I'm convinced the new century will witness the ultimate triumph of Western civilization upon the rest of the world's cultures. Our moral superiority is so self-evident that even the most benighted Negro, Hindoo or Chinaman will come to realize it. Tribal wars, pah! We White men have risen above such petty squabbles.

[Straha]

Imperialism probably lasts into the 21st century. We might even see the european empires slowly merging and merging their colonies like how the germans run their lands. THe non-european world probably gets divide up also.

[Ivan Druzhkov]

Personally, I think that the real nation to watch is Japan. Yes, they may be yellow maniacs, but they're clever yellow maniacs. They've spent the last 40-odd years building themselves into a sort of "mock-Prussia", and have even managed to nab Korea and Formosa from after thrashing the Chinese in '95. Of course, even Italy could thrash the Chinese.

Right now, I agree with Duncan in that a showdown is coming between the Tsar and the Mikado. Personally, I think it'll probably just give the Japanese a bloody nose and teach them to play nice with the Christian Powers. However, judging from the mutterings I've heard in St. Petersburg, with the state of the high command, this might turn into a "Chinese Crimea".

Hopefully, by the time it happens, we'll have absorbed Mongolia, and we'll be in a better position to swat the Japs back into the sea.

[Grey Wolf]

Personally, I think that the real nation to watch is Japan. Yes, they may be yellow maniacs, but they're clever yellow maniacs. They've spent the last 40-odd years building themselves into a sort of "mock-Prussia", and have even managed to nab Korea and Formosa from after thrashing the Chinese in '95. Of course, even Italy could thrash the Chinese.

Haha, you do realise that Italy was the only country forced to back down in the late 1890s when it made a claim for a holding in China ? I think it was at Ningpo in Fukien, but could be wrong, anyway it was around there. They made their demands and the Empress, already furious with other recent capitulations had ordered regional governors to defy additional European demands. The governor told the Italians to f off and off they went.

Grey Wolf

[KJM]

Two global wars, an attempted genocide, and at least two governments based partly on Marxist theory. Oh yeah, and the European nations will lose their empires. :rolleyes:

Seriously, why bother with future histories? They are nothing more than guesswork and they rarely bear much resemblance to what actually happens.

[DMA]

Due to lots of reasons, but mainly trade & defence, Northern Australia & the Australian Commonwealth decide to unite & form a Federation in 1910.

Western Australia, who was invited to join the new Australian Federation, rejected unification & remained independent.

When, however, the Great War came, the Dominion of Western Australia refused to offer help to Britian. The day after Western Australia's rejection, the armies of the Australian Federation invaded & quickly occupied the treasonous dominion. . It remained under occupation, striped of its dominion status, until the end of the Great War. Eventually, the errant British colony was admitted as a state into the Australian Federation.

[Ivan Druzhkov]

Haha, you do realise that Italy was the only country forced to back down in the late 1890s when it made a claim for a holding in China ? I think it was at Ningpo in Fukien, but could be wrong, anyway it was around there. They made their demands and the Empress, already furious with other recent capitulations had ordered regional governors to defy additional European demands. The governor told the Italians to f off and off they went.

Grey Wolf
Maybe they could ask the Ottomans for help this time, LQH.

Thanks for catching me on that, GW. "LQH" is "Laughing Quite Heartily"

[Matt]

Two global wars, an attempted genocide, and at least two governments based partly on Marxist theory. Oh yeah, and the European nations will lose their empires. :rolleyes:

Seriously, why bother with future histories? They are nothing more than guesswork and they rarely bear much resemblance to what actually happens.


By that logic why even bother with AH?

It's all a fun exercise thats all.

[Leej]

Well I'd imagine the Irish will become a dominion within the next few decades.

Towards the end of the century we should start expanding into space, with Britain's superior technology I'd imagine we'd get the choice of prime real estate and end up with Venus leaving the dry desert of Mars to the French.

Kaiser Bill should hopefully die sooner rather then later and be replaced by someone semi-competant.

Russia should move towards more of a constitutional monarchy.

Sunderland shall continue being the dominant team in English football.

[Hendryk]

Has anyone read the recent novel by that British writer H.G. Wells, The War in the Air? Rather unsettling, I should say. I shudder to think of so barbarous an activity as warfare not only resumed in our young 20th century, but literally taken to new heights by the turning of the skies into battlefields. I had rather Jules Verne's vision of peaceful space exploration become reality.
Truly, I am of two minds when thinking of the future. Everything I know and believe convinces me that the current domination of the planet by White Christian men can only usher an age of peace, stability and moral perfection; for can we not claim to be guided by the twin lights of Science and True Religion? Is not our rule more benign and enlightened than any since the advent of Man in this world? Yes, ours is a heavy burden, that of spreading our dominion to the far corners of the globe, and patiently guiding our less fortunate brethren to the same values that we hold dear; but we are of strong stock and can face the daunting task with appropriate resolve.
Yet in that wall of certainty I sense a crack wherein doubt slips through. Perhaps I have let the books I've read infect my thoughts with the bitter poison of uncertainty. But this fellow Friedrich Nietzsche, now withering away in a lunatic asylum (I hear he won't make it to year's end), had such disturbing visions of cataclysmic wars, of a "will to power" set loose upon the world. And if history may not after all be the straight line that takes us to the Millennium, whether sacred or (as the Marxists would have it) secular, some even go so far as to subvert reality itself; the other day I came across a young student of the physical sciences from Germany, one Albert Einstein, who makes outlandish claims about time and space. As he was telling me of his speculations, I felt the firm order of reality wobble in my mind. Can you believe he argues that space and time are not absolute, but relative? That they can be bent and twisted? Wasn't it disturbing enough to be faced with the idea that we men may be descended from ape-like creatures; now the very foundation of the universe is being pulled from beneath our feet...

[DuQuense]

While one thing whe know, Standard oil with it's Kerosene will continue to monopolize the worlds light production . I don't care what kind of Genius Mr Edison has working for him, this talk of Rural Electrification is just too Jules Verne, to be taken seriously.

OTOH the industry to watch is the Telecommunication sector, The Telefono is going to revolutionize the world. Why this "Hello" The telefono operators use , may even Replace the common "Hallou" as the normal greeting.

Politically -I predict that whe will end the next century as whe start this one. One super Power, among five Great Powers, - Why, I'll even go as far as to predict that in 2000 whe will still have problems in the Balkans, Troubles with the Arabs in the Mid East, And Great Power rivalry in Asia. I'll go way out on a limb for this, and a Republican in the White House.

[Ivan Druzhkov]

This discussion has prompted me to look over some old articles last night over dinner, and I think I've found what might be the "sleeping giant" of the twentieth century: America. Sure they may be crude and boisterous, but in the last thirty years, their industrial potential has been growing steadily, and their trade with Europe has been producing huge financial rewards. Right now, they say that the might of England is fueled by the bankers of New York and Boston.

However, this doesn't mean that America is going to steal the British empire and take over the world. From what little I've read, the Americans seem to care little for anything outside their continent that doesn't concern them. The current tiff with Spain just a bit of youthful high spirits. Mark my words, they'll let those islands go as soon as possible. All America wants out of the world is a healthy profit margin and for Europe to leave it alone.

Personally, I think this current business between England and Germany over those ships is just a load of hot air. The Kaiser might not be the most diplomatic of monarchs, but he is certainly no fool. This issue is mostly about allowing Germany a little more power for itself. This shouting about a "place in the sun" is just to keep the rabid nationalists on his side. In a year or two, England and Germany will write up a naval agreement, the Kaiser will keep his shiny new cruisers, the English will be secure in that the Kaiser isn't trying to challenge them anymore, and all will be right with the world.

Ah, and I see Mr. Hendryk is an enthusiast of those new scientific romances as well. Personally, I find them an amusing diversion, but Wells' socialist natterings make the prose tiresome after a while. Mind you, he does to his research: I just added a translation of Lowell's book on Mars to the collection, and it contains the most fascinating discussion on the canal network across the surface of the planet. Who knows, maybe by the year 1950 we'll be drinking Martian water.

[Othniel]

I foresee the work of the Wright Brothers making it onto the battlefield. Anouther war with Mexico seems very possible to me in the states. I also see a war in which the Alliences in Europe causes it to include many of the major powers. Not scare anybody too bad, but I think the Islamic nations will try and grow again. The Brits look as if they are trying to bring insurection against the Ottomans. And I think the Brits will contiue to grow into the 1920s, at which point they will be streched too thin to handle their own empire. Watch Germany, Japan will mirrior it as both attempt to become the next Britian.

Meanwhile here at home I expect some small war against either Columbia, Venz., or Mexico, as said before. The spanish speaking south seems restless. I see even a greater rise in Industry across the world. Especially with Ford. I personally would like to see Great Britian, the U.S. and Germany to form an alllience. At least in trading to each other we could make a tidy profit. The US and Europe will have peace between them as long as Europe doesn't interfear with our trade to either side during a war.

[mattep74]

From a swedish prespective: I think the union with Norway will hold no matter how many difficutlties the norwegians have with it. They have to realise that we are one nation

If the unlikely thing happen that Finland scedes from Russia my guess is that Sweden gets Aland since the big majority on these islands speak swedish

And Sweden has to formaly scede our last region in Germany that we loaned out a 100 years ago. We cant afford to pay what it cost to be a swedish land.

Cant see that the majority of the nation will be allowed to vote for atleast 50 years

Sweden went into the 20th nation poor and we will not prosper much and will go out poor in 1999

[Thande]

Never mind just the Aland islands, Matthias! What about Finland itself? Obviously they will remember the glory days of the seventeenth century and want to reunify with Sweden if they ever break away from Russia.

[KJM]

Who knows, maybe by the year 1950 we'll be drinking Martian water.
Let's try uniting Earth first, then we can worry about Mars.

We don't need international conflict on two planets.

[Thande]

THAT'S a strange attitude to have in 1900! Are you one of those traitorous socialists?

[Grey Wolf]

I foresee the work of the Wright Brothers making it onto the battlefield.

Bicycles ? Quite likely, I'd say...

Grey Wolf

[Tom_B]

The obvious sleeping giant of the upcoming XX Century is Argentina. Once it absorbs Chile with its nitrates it will join the Superpowers.

As far as internationalism the League of Exceptional Empires will be formed mostly to cooperate in the extirpation of Socialists but also to compare notes on keeping wogs subservient.

Science will unravel the secrets of the ether. Mighty airships will travel across the globe at speeds in excess of 50 mph (voice of Paul Harvey saying "It's true")! The invention of the perpetual motion machine will provide limitless energy.

[Thande]

You know they had vehicles in 1900 that could exceed 100mph? (steam cars et al?) So while a fast airship would be quite impressive, it wouldn't be 'that can't be possible!'

[Grey Wolf]

When did Tesla propose his fuel-less engine-less airships powered by electricity beamed to them from the ground ?

And radio, now there's a thing. Marconi or Tesla ? Wardenclyffe revolution or incremental expansion ?

Grey Wolf

[KJM]

THAT'S a strange attitude to have in 1900! Are you one of those traitorous socialists?
You're just lucky we're in (relatively) civilized company.

Seriously, ever hear of "loyal opposition"? Disagreeing with my government's decisions DOES NOT make me a traitor!

At this rate, I have a feeling Congress will eventually begin harassing citizens because of "treasonous leanings". You just wait and see.

[Imajin]

Personally, I think that tensions are stirring in Scandinavia- A full-scale war there is likely, with Norway trying to secede from Sweden, and Denmark supporting them.. Who knows, this could somehow start a full-scale European war- Which is definately something we don't want... Imagine, a ruined Europe being forced to let loose the Colonies! Imagine what they'd do without are superior guidance- It'd be a never-ending war across Africa and Asia..

[Paul Spring]

Well, all I can say is that I'm glad to live in the United States. Let the European governments spend fortunes building armies and fleets designed to destroy each other. My country will just sit back and become richer and richer trading with everyone. A century from now, the United States will be richer than every country in Europe put together.

[Othniel]

Edison may come up with something worth while.

[Romulus Augustulus]

I think the US will eventually emerge as a major power. Why? Well, it's already going to be number 1 economically in the near future...I think there'll be a major European war, in which the old empires will be badly weakened, and I think that the US will fill the vacuum, economically at least. I also think that China will re-emerge, and that the old empires will eventually dump their colonies in a very irresponsible matter, leaving them to decline into instability and chaos, not because of the inferiority of the colonized, but because of the way which they were treated by the Europeans and the condition the Europeans left them in.

[NHBL]

Ireland will certainly try again to throw off the British yoke. If the British will actually work with us politically, perhaps some form of peaceful seperation--prhaps even a continued association--will be possible. If not, why should this century be any different from previous ones? We will likely rise in armed rebellion again if no progress is made, even though modern technology is making it far less likely to succeed. Sad to say, another rising, another series of executions by the British--our land is doomed never to escape the cycle.
That won't stop me from trying, if politics fails. Better to die fighting for freedom than living under a foreigh boot, or dying fighting in another one of Britain's wars. Perhaps a war will give us an opportunity.

[DominusNovus]

I'd pay close attention to the recent developments in automobiles. Those internal explosion engines are an interesting concept, but I can't see them becoming more popular than steam. All the infrastructure is already there for steam...

Although, electrical automobiles are a good possibility. Speaking of electrical inventions, I'd keep an eye on Tesla. I'm certain he'll go down in history as one of the giants of science, and eclipse Edison. The man is simply brilliant. I predict that we'll see some impressive feats through electricity in the near future. 10 to 1 odds say that, should we ever achieve heavier than air flight, the craft will be powered by a lightweight electrical engine.

That reminds me, Grey Wolf, I believe that Othniel might have been refering to the Wright Brothers' recent experiments in gliders. Now, I don't know if they've considered powered flight at all, but hopefully they might make some useful innovations that someone else, inclined to manufacture a power flying machine, could incorporate into their design.

Also, I seem to recall something about some German count, Zepen, was it? Maybe there was an 'l' in there. Anyway, he's doing something with airships, isn't he?

[Scarecrow]

Due to lots of reasons, but mainly trade & defence, Northern Australia & the Australian Commonwealth decide to unite & form a Federation in 1910.

Western Australia, who was invited to join the new Australian Federation, rejected unification & remained independent.

When, however, the Great War came, the Dominion of Western Australia refused to offer help to Britian. The day after Western Australia's rejection, the armies of the Australian Federation invaded & quickly occupied the treasonous dominion. . It remained under occupation, striped of its dominion status, until the end of the Great War. Eventually, the errant British colony was admitted as a state into the

frankly i find you view of the future a nighmare. let the Newsouthwelshmen cross the nulabor, half of them will die of our heatyou know, there are rumors of great mineral wealth in the vast desert of my home colony. perhaps we could gain the intrest of the Kaiser? if eating saukraut is the penalty to pay for independence, then i say hello Kaiser.

and what is all this talk of airships? i may take an intrest in the scientific romance's of Verne and Wells, but to my eyes this is propusterus. the future is in giant ships that take meer days to cross the atlantic. gigantic titanous ships with their own ballrooms, gymnasiums, and swiming pools, with a gramaphone in each compartment.

unfortunetly i do not expect such a cheery future. i fear that war is inevitable. Europes power base will be threatened by the United States of Ameirca. i would have do the Empire good to support the independent Confederacy, which would weaken the Unions power. Mexico, in the eyes of the Union is a plum waiting to be plucked. it is only a manner of years before Mexico goes the way of California and Texas. and Canada, beware as well. the Union lusts after your wild tundra.

in Asia? i fear that Japan will carve up China to its liking, and try to detatch bits of russia into its Empire. the conflict is inevitable, and in my eyes the natural course of action would be to put a stop to this nonsense once and for all and subdue the yellow peril before we find them on our doorstep. Britian should be fencing Japan in the international arena, not befriending it. that is all i have to say on the matter, good day

[Grimm Reaper]

Personally I must admit that I found the prophecies of Romulus to be most unlikely and in rather poor taste.

Romulus, I understand that as an American you take pride in your society but really! Do you Grey Wolf positing a reunion of England and France under the British monarchy? ...even if he would like it to happen...

But as to opining for the future and boldly placing my opinions and theories in writing where it might yet be held against me at some point, I, Gerald Ramsbottom Iswold Monckton-Morton IV of the manor Reapergate will be proud to take a few stands. For posterity, of course.
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First, I am afraid that I must respectfully take issue with certain of my distinguished colleagues regarding their analysis of the United States. While it is certainly understandable that a future as a dominating power might be seen, given the enormous wealth and territory available, not to say their remarkable industrial and scientific developments(especially that Edison fellow), in the end a nation's power and prestige is derived from its character.

Were this not the case it would be inconceivable that a collection of minor German states or a somewhat dreary island off the coast of France would become the powers they are.

Likewise the United States will never amount to more than a regional power in the Western Hemisphere, and bear in mind the relative weakness of most of the other nations there, simply because it is a SATISFIED power. The nation and people will continue to go on fat and happy and disinterested in efforts on military force or foreign interventions. In truth, I would think that only a real or perceived threat perhaps combined with an attack on American soil seen as underhanded or dastardly in some manner, would suffice to propel the Americans onto the world stage.

Even then they would undoubtedly grow weary and withdraw into their shell within a decade of victory.

I foresee little prospects for improvement in Latin America. The legacy of Spanish mismanagement and corruption appears to be eternal. Perhaps the Argentine, given its close ties to Europe and guaranteed markets for grain, might have a chance, but for that very reason neighboring Chile and Brazil will oppose her and tear her down.

Africa, in contrast, is a land which will do exceptionally well in the 20th century. Already the potential benefits of natural resources, manpower, et al have begun to be realized but the true achievement will be when one of the colonial powers finally manages to develop and raise up the colonies to equality and full partnership in that particular empire. Sadly I predict that England's continuing preference for India means that Germany will likely be the first to achieve this goal. By 1940 I would see Tanganyika as a full part of the Second Reich, by which time other colonial powers will be eagerly attempting to make up for lost time.

Russia, I fear, is in for a very poor time of it. Without a proper and more representative form of government I do not think this nation shall prosper. Indeed, I suspect that many dissenting minorities shall see that the just the opposite transpires. And given the splendid state of race relations in Germany and the new evolving status in Austria-Hungary, the Poles, Jews, et al shall not have far to look for alternatives.

It is bad enough to have large and strategic border regions inhabited by oppressed minorities but when said minorities actively look to your neighbors...well, that just isn't there.

The new 'Young Turkish' movement appears to be just what the decaying Ottoman Empire needs, and I predict a major resurgence of military and economic ability by 1915.

The inspired movements towards peace and international amity of the prince of Wales will surely bear rich fruit in the future. Perhaps we shall see a permanent international court or even some kind of union or league which can represent the nations of the world and further the causes of peace amicably?

Personally I suspect that war is an increasingly out-dated concept which civilized powers need no longer indulge in. Rather it is through exploration, scientific development, and trade that nations shall compete. And who can imagine what discoveries await? Perhaps even those new fangled flying machines will escape the realm of the fantastic and become reality? Imagine! A day may yet come when speeds of up to 100 miles per hour become possible in the air! Or a solution to the health issues of our time where the average lifespan may reach past 50! Or perhaps even the working man can hope to enjoy meat TWICE a week!

Yes, the future awaits and it shall be glorious!
__________________________________________________ _______________

*Historian's note. The writer's two younger brothers and three of his four sons were killed in WWI. The fortune was lost, the estate claimed in lieu of debts unpaid, and his last descendant is now enjoying life as a minor government beauracrat in the colonies. So much for prophecy.

[Hendryk]

One specific aspect of the young 20th century's prospective history that has heretofore been left unaddressed by this forum's distinguished contributors is the Jewish question. As you are no doubt aware, the Dreyfus affair is spilling a lot of ink these days in France, and many a family dinner has devolved into a sorry fistfight over the alleged framing of the unlucky Israelite officer. This whole untidy business seems to be drawing Jews to rather different conclusions. One man I met recently, a Mr. Levinas from Vilnius, told me he is actually considering moving permanently to Paris, as, in his own words, "a country where people will come to blows and the government be challenged just so a Jew can have justice is one where every Jew ought to live." At least one coreligionist of his, however, begs to differ; and that Mr. Herzl certainly makes an interesting if not altogether convincing case of bringing all the world's Jews together in a single homeland, precisely so they would no longer be submitted to Captain Dreyfus's indignity.
Well, I suppose there can be no harm in letting Mr. Herzl give his admittedly far-fetched project a chance. Already large tracts of uninhabited but fertile land are being bought for that purpose in Argentina; who knows whether we shan't someday refer to Patagonia as "New Israel"?
I confess my curiosity as to what you think of all this.

[Thande]

Too late - Patagonia is already New Wales. :)

[KJM]

Sadly I predict that England's continuing preference for India means that Germany will likely be the first to achieve this goal. By 1940 I would see Tanganyika as a full part of the Second Reich, by which time other colonial powers will be eagerly attempting to make up for lost time.
That, of course, assumes the Kaiser doesn't do anything stupid.

[Thande]

Yes...maybe a diplomat will incautiously ask if he wants 'lending a hand' and global war erupts.

[Romulus Augustulus]

I'll finally finish my invention, probably sometime around 1904. I call it a "nuclear reactor."

[Peter Cowan]

Having read with interest the prognostications of the distinguished gentlefolk, I feel I must submit the unvarnished truth of the course of the dawning century. My acquaintance with a notable man of science, a companion of an aforementioned Mr Wells, enabled me to take a brief excursion into futurity.

I was not there long, my excursion being somewhat unauthorised as it were, but I did obtain, not by wholly honourable means I confess, an atlas of the future world. This, combined with some tantalising morsels of historical (to the mind of 21st century man) information allows me to categorically chart the course of the next hundred years.

Gratifyingly, the atlas showed much of the world to be emblazoned with the crimson hue of the Empire (now curiously renamed the Commonwealth). Still, Britannia's majesty was evidently foremost in the world.

It was in Europe, however, that the map did show the changes of the new century. I had heard that a great revolution did convulse Russia in 1917, and from the ashes, new states appeared. A free Poland, the Ukraine, even the khanates of the central asia had by some means detached themselves from the bear's embrace. St Petersburg itself, far from being a capital was reduced to a border town on the verges of states which had not existed since before the times of Tsar Ivan.

No doubt, it was this example that led the subject peoples of the empires of Austro-Hungary and the Ottomans to also seek the freedom desired by all good people.

It transpires that France and Poland did war upon the German Empire in 1939. Doubtless, this war unchained the fetters that lay heavy on the provinces of Alsace and Lorraine and restored to Poland the lands lost to the overweening pride of Prussian expansion.

And yet, despite this, it would appear that the countries of Europe have forsaken the past and are now engaged in forming a union of states, one in which, no doubt, England shall play a foremost role, giving our continental brethren the benefit of our wisdom.

So, I ponder this map, and give thanks that I have seen the future and am content that the new century will be one where the peoples of Europe will prosper and by the end be united.

[Romulus Augustulus]

Nah...this "European Union" is probably a loose confederation of states, designed primarily in order to facilitate commerce. It probably has a common currency or something.

[Peter Cowan]

The Pound Sterling, obviously.

[FederationX]

The Pound Sterling, obviously.

I say the mark or even the franc!

[Faeelin]

Nah...this "European Union" is probably a loose confederation of states, designed primarily in order to facilitate commerce. It probably has a common currency or something.

Yeah, right.

I think it's far more likely that it's a puppet of the German Empire. Europaische Zollverain, anyone?

Arguing against that would be the fact that France regained Alsace-Lorraine. Maybe the Republic won a war that devastated Germany, and set it up to dominate Europe?

Makes you wonder why Britain's in it, though. Did the Frogs finally cross the Channel?

[Romulus Augustulus]

Nah. I think that after a century of horrible violence, the states of Europe, tired of bloodshed, decided to work together towards greater cooperation. The process probably began in the 1950s.

[Romulus Augustulus]

I'm originally from West Turkestan; my family comes from Tashkent. Anyway, every few years, I come back for a visit, going around Europe. It's good fun. Anyway, when I was in Switzerland, I ran into this fellow by the name of Vladimir Illyich Ulyanov, or was it Lenin or something? Anyway, he's a rabid Marxist, and he's plotting all sorts of weird sedition against the Russian crown. Naturally, I cheered him on. I detest the institution of the monarchy.

[NFR]

Personally, I think that the real nation to watch is Japan. Yes, they may be yellow maniacs, but they're clever yellow maniacs. They've spent the last 40-odd years building themselves into a sort of "mock-Prussia", and have even managed to nab Korea and Formosa from after thrashing the Chinese in '95. Of course, even Italy could thrash the Chinese.

Oh, please. Thrashing Chinamen is nobody's idea of anything impressive. It's one step above taking confection from infants, but it's not that high of a step. And Korea? Formosa? What are those? In a hundred years they won't approach the level of Bristol.

Right now, I agree with Duncan in that a showdown is coming between the Tsar and the Mikado. Personally, I think it'll probably just give the Japanese a bloody nose and teach them to play nice with the Christian Powers. However, judging from the mutterings I've heard in St. Petersburg, with the state of the high command, this might turn into a "Chinese Crimea".

Hopefully, by the time it happens, we'll have absorbed Mongolia, and we'll be in a better position to swat the Japs back into the sea.

Normally, I won't mind if anybody give you damned Ruskkies a good hiding, but as it's the Japs you aer fighting, I'll change my allegiance for once. Za Rodinu, not that you'd need it.

[NFR]

Due to lots of reasons, but mainly trade & defence, Northern Australia & the Australian Commonwealth decide to unite & form a Federation in 1910.

Western Australia, who was invited to join the new Australian Federation, rejected unification & remained independent.

When, however, the Great War came, the Dominion of Western Australia refused to offer help to Britian. The day after Western Australia's rejection, the armies of the Australian Federation invaded & quickly occupied the treasonous dominion. . It remained under occupation, striped of its dominion status, until the end of the Great War. Eventually, the errant British colony was admitted as a state into the Australian Federation.

I am interested. What is this Great War you are thinking of? Perhaps a confrontation between France and German against Great Britain and Russia?

[DMA]

I am interested. What is this Great War you are thinking of? Perhaps a confrontation between France and German against Great Britain and Russia?


Oh it's going to be bad. Expect it to be somethink like the Napoleonic Wars only a hundred times worse. Ironically enough, Britain & France will probably be allies against the Germans I'd say.

[Romulus Augustulus]

Ehh...Russia will probably be with France and Britain, and Austria will go with Germany. The Maxim Gun will prove itself in European warfare.

[NFR]

Oh it's going to be bad. Expect it to be somethink like the Napoleonic Wars only a hundred times worse. Ironically enough, Britain & France will probably be allies against the Germans I'd say.

Quite frankly, until the colonial tiff with the bloody frogs is resolved (and I am not waiting in line for this one), the chances of Britian fighting along side France is slim to none. The only thing the two nations share is an uneasiness about Germany, and Britain can sort out her differences with Germany easily enough once the naval ruckus is taken care of.

[NFR]

The obvious sleeping giant of the upcoming XX Century is Argentina. Once it absorbs Chile with its nitrates it will join the Superpowers.

As far as internationalism the League of Exceptional Empires will be formed mostly to cooperate in the extirpation of Socialists but also to compare notes on keeping wogs subservient.

Science will unravel the secrets of the ether. Mighty airships will travel across the globe at speeds in excess of 50 mph (voice of Paul Harvey saying "It's true")! The invention of the perpetual motion machine will provide limitless energy.

Eh, the perpetual motion engine has long been proven to be quite impossible with the advent of thermodynamics in the last century.

[NFR]

Well, all I can say is that I'm glad to live in the United States. Let the European governments spend fortunes building armies and fleets designed to destroy each other. My country will just sit back and become richer and richer trading with everyone. A century from now, the United States will be richer than every country in Europe put together.

Let's try to be at least slightly realistic here. America is a great country, but overtaking all of Europe? I'll take two world wars and an insane governmental organisation to manage that.

[NFR]

Ireland will certainly try again to throw off the British yoke. If the British will actually work with us politically, perhaps some form of peaceful seperation--prhaps even a continued association--will be possible. If not, why should this century be any different from previous ones? We will likely rise in armed rebellion again if no progress is made, even though modern technology is making it far less likely to succeed. Sad to say, another rising, another series of executions by the British--our land is doomed never to escape the cycle.
That won't stop me from trying, if politics fails. Better to die fighting for freedom than living under a foreigh boot, or dying fighting in another one of Britain's wars. Perhaps a war will give us an opportunity.

I have a proposal, called 'Home Rule', perhaps we can go over that?

[DMA]

Quite frankly, until the colonial tiff with the bloody frogs is resolved (and I am not waiting in line for this one), the chances of Britian fighting along side France is slim to none. The only thing the two nations share is an uneasiness about Germany, and Britain can sort out her differences with Germany easily enough once the naval ruckus is taken care of.


Well that's the thing isn't it? Who's the greater enemy for each country. For Britain, though, she can't tolerate someone threatening her naval supremacy. France, meanwhile, has Germany's armies right on the border.

Overall, this means both Britain & France have more in common, in regards to a combined threat from Germany, than they have if one or the other side with Germany. Besides, the Germans can expect support from the Austrians, who again can threaten British naval supremacy in the Mediterranean, whilst again threatening the French on land.

The Russians are an unknown factor, though, IMHO. Eitherway, with or without the Russians, like I said, expect the Great War to be a hundred times worse than the Napoleonic Wars

[Romulus Augustulus]

So...trench warfare, poison gas, machine guns, rats, and armored tracked fighting land vehicles?

[NFR]

One specific aspect of the young 20th century's prospective history that has heretofore been left unaddressed by this forum's distinguished contributors is the Jewish question. As you are no doubt aware, the Dreyfus affair is spilling a lot of ink these days in France, and many a family dinner has devolved into a sorry fistfight over the alleged framing of the unlucky Israelite officer. This whole untidy business seems to be drawing Jews to rather different conclusions. One man I met recently, a Mr. Levinas from Vilnius, told me he is actually considering moving permanently to Paris, as, in his own words, "a country where people will come to blows and the government be challenged just so a Jew can have justice is one where every Jew ought to live." At least one coreligionist of his, however, begs to differ; and that Mr. Herzl certainly makes an interesting if not altogether convincing case of bringing all the world's Jews together in a single homeland, precisely so they would no longer be submitted to Captain Dreyfus's indignity.
Well, I suppose there can be no harm in letting Mr. Herzl give his admittedly far-fetched project a chance. Already large tracts of uninhabited but fertile land are being bought for that purpose in Argentina; who knows whether we shan't someday refer to Patagonia as "New Israel"?
I confess my curiosity as to what you think of all this.

I must say I have a rather different opinion on this matter. I think with the advent of the telegraph, mass printing and perhaps even the telephone, it is inevitable that the Jews will be drawn ever closer into their adopted homelands. Witness Disraeli, for example. I predict that before the century is out the Jew will cease to exist as a separate cultural entity.

[NFR]

So...trench warfare, poison gas, machine guns, rats, and armored tracked fighting land vehicles?

No Christian and civilised man will stoop to the use of poisoned gases. We are not Chinamen or Mussulmen, to use ignoble poison for purposes of war.

And what is 'tracked'? Another one of those contraptions one sees in those scientific romances? Do try to be sensible once in a while.

[NFR]

Well that's the thing isn't it? Who's the greater enemy for each country. For Britain, though, she can't tolerate someone threatening her naval supremacy. France, meanwhile, has Germany's armies right on the border.

Overall, this means both Britain & France have more in common, in regards to a combined threat from Germany, than they have if one or the other side with Germany. Besides, the Germans can expect support from the Austrians, who again can threaten British naval supremacy in the Mediterranean, whilst again threatening the French on land.

You have reason, but then all of this rests on the untenable position that Germany will continue on their current policy of naval adventure. Even the Kaiser must see that he has no hope of ever challenging the Royal Navy in the high seas. Sooner or later an agreement will be reached. The French, on the other hand, has colonial disputes with the Empire which has proven difficult to defuse before.



The Russians are an unknown factor, though, IMHO. Eitherway, with or without the Russians, like I said, expect the Great War to be a hundred times worse than the Napoleonic Wars

A hundred times worse? Why, Europe will be literally decimated. But I think you indulge in hyperbole there.

[NFR]

Nah...this "European Union" is probably a loose confederation of states, designed primarily in order to facilitate commerce. It probably has a common currency or something.

Really, must you make these assertions without a single iota of evidence or een attempt at reasoning?

[Othniel]

I heard of a crackpot American inventor that is designing an underwater warship...calls it the u-boat. Maybe America will buy a few to keep us safe from blockades, eh?

[Romulus Augustulus]

Tracked vehicles? Simple. They're don't have wheels as we know them, but they do have wheels. Instead of tires, however, there is a continuous belt made out of metal links wrapped around the wheels. Tracked vehicles are slow, but they can handle very rough terrain. Here's a picture, which just might help.

Clicky! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cat_D9.png)

[NFR]

Tracked vehicles? Simple. They're don't have wheels as we know them, but they do have wheels. Instead of tires, however, there is a continuous belt made out of metal links wrapped around the wheels. Tracked vehicles are slow, but they can handle very rough terrain. Here's a picture, which just might help.

Clicky! (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cat_D9.png)

:rolleyes:

OOC: Look, one or two super-accurate predictions is cool, but must you do this all the bloody time? At least try to give some justification why a man at the turn of the 19th century may think what you seem to think.

[Romulus Augustulus]

Oh...By the way, is anyone interested in my latest invention, which I call a "nuclear reactor?"

[Othniel]

Isn't that what harm(ing)(ed) the Curries? It maybe far too dangerous to contain, although only a small community think that the power is given off by parts of the atom flying off. Most people just look at uranium and go 'Eww, glowing rock!' But thy don't realise it maybe bad for them...

[Romulus Augustulus]

I have conducted experiments, and it is indeed the splitting of the atom. I am also working on a weapon of great destructive potential based on this remarkable principle. I call this a "nuclear bomb," and an even more powerful weapon, which needs a "nuclear bomb" to set off and which fuses hydrogen atoms together and is called a "thermonuclear bomb" is in the pipeline. The "nuclear bomb" has a potential yield of twenty thousand tons of TNT...

[Imajin]

I have conducted experiments, and it is indeed the splitting of the atom. I am also working on a weapon of great destructive potential based on this remarkable principle. I call this a "nuclear bomb," and an even more powerful weapon, which needs a "nuclear bomb" to set off and which fuses hydrogen atoms together and is called a "thermonuclear bomb" is in the pipeline. The "nuclear bomb" has a potential yield of twenty thousand tons of TNT...
Why would you ever want such a weapon? Would that not chain react with all hydrogen in the atmosphere and destroy our planet?

[Romulus Augustulus]

Nope. It doesn't exceed a certain "threshold" I have established. In order to exceed this threshold...well...even I couldn't do it. Ah well...I have another invention you might be interested in, which I call the "computer," and something else, which I call the "Internet."

[KJM]

Nope. It doesn't exceed a certain "threshold" I have established. In order to exceed this threshold...well...even I couldn't do it. Ah well...I have another invention you might be interested in, which I call the "computer," and something else, which I call the "Internet."
Stop making up words, you deluded jackass. This is a serious discussion about possible futures, and you keep dragging science fiction into it. If you do make a "nuclear bomb," do us all a favor and stand next to it when you set it off.

[DMA]

You have reason, but then all of this rests on the untenable position that Germany will continue on their current policy of naval adventure. Even the Kaiser must see that he has no hope of ever challenging the Royal Navy in the high seas. Sooner or later an agreement will be reached. The French, on the other hand, has colonial disputes with the Empire which has proven difficult to defuse before.


Agreements between European powers are often worth less than the paper they're written on. France is an established power, as is Britain. Russia is the same. Germany, however, is a growing power & it has shown no signs of slowing down. Most dangerously for Britain, other than Germany's ever growing navy, is that it wants colonies. Similarly, it wants them in regions already taken by both Britain & France. Again, the British & french have more in common if they act as allies against the Germans, before the Germans act against one, if not both, of them as individuals.


A hundred times worse? Why, Europe will be literally decimated. But I think you indulge in hyperbole there.


You have to remember the weapons are far more powerful than in the early 1800s, in fact there's no comparision, but the tactics haven't changed much. So yeah, expect the worst.

[NFR]

Stop making up words, you deluded jackass. This is a serious discussion about possible futures, and you keep dragging science fiction into it. If you do make a "nuclear bomb," do us all a favor and stand next to it when you set it off.

'Computer' is a real word. It is the highly-trained natives employed in India who make land surveys by means of counting their steps. But I have no idea what he means whey he says he 'invented' them, either.

[DominusNovus]

I heard of a crackpot American inventor that is designing an underwater warship...calls it the u-boat. Maybe America will buy a few to keep us safe from blockades, eh?
My, you are behind the times, aren't you? The Americans have been experimenting with these submarines since the Revolution. They made a small comeback during the Civil War, with both sides developing them, but to little use. Anyway, there are a few currently in use and in production, but they're few and far between.

I imagine that they will prove quite useful in war. I'd suggest using them against shipping, but, of course, the rules of engagement would render their stealth useless. Then again, I've never been a fan of the rules. Hopefully, the navies of the world feel differently than I. I'd say that their main use would be scouting. Possibly used to ship cargo, underneath blockades...

OOC: Cut it out, Romulus. :rolleyes:

[NFR]

Agreements between European powers are often worth less than the paper they're written on. France is an established power, as is Britain. Russia is the same. Germany, however, is a growing power & it has shown no signs of slowing down. Most dangerously for Britain, other than Germany's ever growing navy, is that it wants colonies. Similarly, it wants them in regions already taken by both Britain & France. Again, the British & french have more in common if they act as allies against the Germans, before the Germans act against one, if not both, of them as individuals.

Germany may well be a growing power, but then so is America, and accomodation with her is possible. A hypothetical Anglo-German alignment may occur if part of France's colonies were promised to Germany instead.


You have to remember the weapons are far more powerful than in the early 1800s, in fact there's no comparision, but the tactics haven't changed much. So yeah, expect the worst.

I for one think that the tactics have changed markedly since Napoleonic times. We no longer advance in squares, nor do we practise the harrying of enemies to destruction artillery. Warfare is far more likely to be static, and there is a limit as to how much casualty one can deliver or receive when one is behind fortifications.


OOC: I don't have much to add, really, with the EC signing in four years, and the reality on the ground as it was, this wasn't really a tenable line of arguement. But you have to, in this sort of things.

[DMA]

Germany may well be a growing power, but then so is America, and accomodation with her is possible. A hypothetical Anglo-German alignment may occur if part of France's colonies were promised to Germany instead.


The Germans are in naval competition with the British. I can't see any alignment or alliance take place. America isn't interested in European affairs. Encroach upon American interests, though, & it'll be a different story.

Feeding Germany anything, especially French territory, will only mean Germany will want more. That'll mean at some point Britain will have to say "no", but to a much stronger Germany than now. Germany will know this & will reject Britain's "no". Well that'll only mean war, & Britain's only potential ally, France, will be weak. And that's teh last thing Britain wants in any future clash with Germany.



I for one think that the tactics have changed markedly since Napoleonic times. We no longer advance in squares, nor do we practise the harrying of enemies to destruction artillery. Warfare is far more likely to be static, and there is a limit as to how much casualty one can deliver or receive when one is behind fortifications.


No one never advanced in squares. It was a defensive tactic to use against cavalry attack. Infantry attacks are usually in line or column formation. This hasn't changed at all in one hundred years. Artillery tactics haven't changed much either, even though it's been greatly advanced. More than likely, though, artillery will greatly benefit the defender, especially if the attacker sticks to the usual infantry tactics.

If warefare will be static, & concentrate of defence (which wouldn't surprise after the initial battles), then any subsequent attacks will suffer high casualites for little or no gain. Considering the large population levels, combined with industrialisation, war will be a long, drawn out affair, meaning a large death & casualty rate numbering in the millions.

[Romulus Augustulus]

This "computer" is a mechanical device that can add, subtract, multiply and divide. It can perform one arithmetical operation every second! Now if that's not incredible, I don't know what is. As for the upcoming European war...I think that Maxim guns will find use on the European battlefield as defensive weapons. Their high rate of fire means that one or two men will have the firepower of a much larger group of men armed with more slowly loading weapons. I think that as time goes on, the mechanism will become miniaturized, and that personal automatic weapons will become common.

[NHBL]

I have a proposal, called 'Home Rule', perhaps we can go over that?

There've been proposals for such before--and Home Rule has been debated time and again, to no avail. Why should we expect the largest empire the world has ever seen to change, and actualy deal fairly with us?

Words will not convince anyone in Ireland--unless the Empire acts, then "The Rising of the Moon" will be on everyone's lips again.

("The Rising of the Moon" is one of many Irish songs of rebellion)

[Hendryk]

I have recently been travelling to the Middle Kingdom as well as the Japanese-acquired colony of Formosa. I must say that, however much I admire--as every Frenchman is wont to--the great Napoleon, I can only take issue with his famous statement comparing China to a sleeping giant. A giant China may be, but she is not so much asleep as drugged out of her senses. To see that once-mighty empire reduced to an opium-addled wreck by the cynical trafficking of the Western powers is a sorry spectacle indeed. Why, if it had not been for the combined ills of a budgetary crisis, a string of uprisings by Mohammedan subjects, the despicable Taiping rebellion and the smuggling of opium by Britain and to a lesser extent my own country, I am skeptical China could have so easily been carved up.
I surmise that you, my distinguished colleagues, would not believe me if I were to tell you what obscene fortunes have been amassed in the last half-century by outwardly respectable British trading families such as the Jardines and the Mathesons. But as the Good Book say, live by the sword, die by the sword; and I can confidently predict that one day we Westerners will be plagued as well by the smuggling of drugs in our own lands, now that we have shown the world what profits can be made from this shameful activity. Lest you think I overstate my case, let me ask you, How would we like it if some foreign country decided to sell on our territory, and without our consent, such addictive poisons? Would we not consider that a clear casus belli?
Furthermore, as someone who has witnessed the conduct of our fellow White men on Chinese soil, I can write that not since the sack of Rome by the Vandals and the Goths has the world witnessed such rampant barbarism. Just as the revenous hordes from beyond the limes once lay waste to the most magnificent empire ever to have arisen in the West, today the new barbarians are busily tearing down Rome's Eastern equivalent, the Middle Kingdom. It seems that putting the Imperial seat to the torch a first time, in 1860, was not enough for the ruffians that claim to represent our civilization in Asia; now they are taking advantage of the trouble with the so-called Boxers to do it again for good measure. If this be Christian behavior, let me live among heathens!
But China has been down before, and it is safe to think that, by the time this new century is over, she will have regained much of her greatness, though it may take more than one iron-fisted emperor to bring this recovery about. I suppose a change of dynasty is in order.

[NFR]

There've been proposals for such before--and Home Rule has been debated time and again, to no avail. Why should we expect the largest empire the world has ever seen to change, and actualy deal fairly with us?

Words will not convince anyone in Ireland--unless the Empire acts, then "The Rising of the Moon" will be on everyone's lips again.

("The Rising of the Moon" is one of many Irish songs of rebellion)

Die, for the Empire, etc.

[NFR]

I have recently been travelling to the Middle Kingdom as well as the Japanese-acquired colony of Formosa. I must say that, however much I admire--as every Frenchman is wont to--the great Napoleon, I can only take issue with his famous statement comparing China to a sleeping giant. A giant China may be, but she is not so much asleep as drugged out of her senses. To see that once-mighty empire reduced to an opium-addled wreck by the cynical trafficking of the Western powers is a sorry spectacle indeed. Why, if it had not been for the combined ills of a budgetary crisis, a string of uprisings by Mohammedan subjects, the despicable Taiping rebellion and the smuggling of opium by Britain and to a lesser extent my own country, I am skeptical China could have so easily been carved up.
I surmise that you, my distinguished colleagues, would not believe me if I were to tell you what obscene fortunes have been amassed in the last half-century by outwardly respectable British trading families such as the Jardines and the Mathesons. But as the Good Book say, live by the sword, die by the sword; and I can confidently predict that one day we Westerners will be plagued as well by the smuggling of drugs in our own lands, now that we have shown the world what profits can be made from this shameful activity. Lest you think I overstate my case, let me ask you, How would we like it if some foreign country decided to sell on our territory, and without our consent, such addictive poisons? Would we not consider that a clear casus belli?
Furthermore, as someone who has witnessed the conduct of our fellow White men on Chinese soil, I can write that not since the sack of Rome by the Vandals and the Goths has the world witnessed such rampant barbarism. Just as the revenous hordes from beyond the limes once lay waste to the most magnificent empire ever to have arisen in the West, today the new barbarians are busily tearing down Rome's Eastern equivalent, the Middle Kingdom. It seems that putting the Imperial seat to the torch a first time, in 1860, was not enough for the ruffians that claim to represent our civilization in Asia; now they are taking advantage of the trouble with the so-called Boxers to do it again for good measure. If this be Christian behavior, let me live among heathens!
But China has been down before, and it is safe to think that, by the time this new century is over, she will have regained much of her greatness, though it may take more than one iron-fisted emperor to bring this recovery about. I suppose a change of dynasty is in order.

I was with Admiral Seymour in Langfang. I saw the hordes of boxers kept throwing themselves against rifles and maxim guns. I'll say one thing, those Chinamen are fanatics. They lack every martial quality but spirit, and that is the only one that cannot be instilled by an outside agent.

If all do not go well, we may see a vengeful China once again rising out of the East, to avenge perceived wrongs. And if that happens, were I Japan I should tremble. Perhaps no later then fourty years hence, I predict Imperial Manchus, with troops armed and modernised after the Prussian model, marching through the streets of Seoul, and later Tokyo herself. And when they turn their sights to their fellow Chinamen in Indochina and the East Indies, can the Christian powers hold the teaming hordes back?

[KJM]

Lest you think I overstate my case, let me ask you, How would we like it if some foreign country decided to sell on our territory, and without our consent, such addictive poisons? Would we not consider that a clear casus belli?
I agree. Europe is going to end up regretting this.

[DMA]

I was with Admiral Seymour in Langfang. I saw the hordes of boxers kept throwing themselves against rifles and maxim guns. I'll say one thing, those Chinamen are fanatics. They lack every martial quality but spirit, and that is the only one that cannot be instilled by an outside agent.

Really? I was in the Royal Naval Rifle Battalion. We had .303 repeaters, but I didn't see any Maxim guns.

We had a great time in Peking, though. I stole myself a great Chinese tapestry. It's got gold thread throughout it & a huge black & gold dragon in the centre. I have no idea what it's worth, but it looks fantastic.

[NFR]

Really? I was in the Royal Naval Rifle Battalion. We had .303 repeaters, but I didn't see any Maxim guns.

We had a great time in Peking, though. I stole myself a great Chinese tapestry. It's got gold thread throughout it & a huge black & gold dragon in the centre. I have no idea what it's worth, but it looks fantastic.

[OOC: Yes, that's what I was thinking of.]

[DMA]

[OOC: Yes, that's what I was thinking of.]


Actually it was my great-grandfather who stole the Chinese tapestry. And it does look fantastic. It was in my bedroom overlooking my bed. I called the dragon, well, Dragoon. Hey I was about 3 at the time! :)

Cool eh? :cool:

[Ivan Druzhkov]

I'm originally from West Turkestan; my family comes from Tashkent. Anyway, every few years, I come back for a visit, going around Europe. It's good fun. Anyway, when I was in Switzerland, I ran into this fellow by the name of Vladimir Illyich Ulyanov, or was it Lenin or something? Anyway, he's a rabid Marxist, and he's plotting all sorts of weird sedition against the Russian crown. Naturally, I cheered him on. I detest the institution of the monarchy.

If I were you, sir, I would refrain from speaking so flippantly of our righteous Tsar, lest I find myself run through by a Cossack's blade!

I don't see why you think so highly of this "Lenin". Right now, the socialists are too busy attacking each other and splitting into various groups to be much a threat to a bedpad-factory owner, much less the monarchy. It's almost as if they were a band of irate Mohammedists squabbling over a camel...

Speaking of the Arabs, I don't see why Mr. DuQuense feels they will become a problem in the future. A few years back, I was part of a diplomatic mission to the Ottoman Empire based in Jerusalem. From what I saw, the Arabs were barely civilized, and they did not seem to care much about anything that didn't involve their local squabbles. Overall, I would best describe the place as "sleepy". The only thing that could corrupt these people is wealth, and barring the discovery of a huge coal deposit underneath Baghdad, I don't see how they could get it.

Mind you, the place did contain the omnipresent musk of Turks, which probably explains the attitude of the Arabs. Quite pungent, as I recall.

[NHBL]

On another topic altogether, I think that battleships are going to increase in size and firepower. To build bigger guns would only take a decision to develop the engineering--no breakthroughs are required like these flying machines. (They would be admirable scouts)
It would be in Germany's best interest to lead the way here, as a sudden leap in firepower and ship size would greatly reduce the value of the existing Royal Navy. Germany's "Brandenburg" class is an interesting step in the direction of firepower, with 6 big guns instead of the traditional four. Build a ship like that, longer to aleviate blast effects, and with a gun of larger calliber, and Brtian is reduced to playing catch up.
Perhaps guns will reach the size of the old 16"+ muzzel loaders of ships like Duilio. A modern breachloader built to these proportions would crush anything now afloat.

(OTL note: Britian often let another nation innovate, then just out-built them afterwards. SMS Brandenburg and her sisters were armed with 6 11" guns--they entered service in 1893, although with a few problems.)

[Ivan Druzhkov]

On another topic altogether, I think that battleships are going to increase in size and firepower. To build bigger guns would only take a decision to develop the engineering--no breakthroughs are required like these flying machines. (They would be admirable scouts)
It would be in Germany's best interest to lead the way here, as a sudden leap in firepower and ship size would greatly reduce the value of the existing Royal Navy. Germany's "Brandenburg" class is an interesting step in the direction of firepower, with 6 big guns instead of the traditional four. Build a ship like that, longer to aleviate blast effects, and with a gun of larger calliber, and Brtian is reduced to playing catch up.
Perhaps guns will reach the size of the old 16"+ muzzel loaders of ships like Duilio. A modern breachloader built to these proportions would crush anything now afloat.
You raise some good points, but I'm personally uncertain of the inevitability of the "big-gun" battleship. I've been hearing some rather alarming news about the proliferation of torpedoes to various lesser maritime Powers. These weapons can generally be loaded onto small, fast boats that can steam in, fire a few at an unsuspecting battleship, sink it, and sail away without coming in range of the guns. Imagine if every little nation with a grudge, like Greece or Serbia, had these weapons and the will to use them. We could very well see the collapse of the modern navy as we know it!

[Grimm Reaper]

Ivan, my dear chap, have you considered the possibility of other valuable resources being discovered in the Arab-speaking provinces of the Ottoman Empire? Admittedly gold or silver would surely have been identified by now, but perhaps one these new-fangled minerals for making better quality steel?

Yet I feel the sorrowful need to raise an alarming point for the board at large. I expect that a proper secondary battery would prove capable of dealing with cowardly little craft that can fire a single volley of these 'torpedos' prior to reloading but I understand that an Anglophobe( :eek: ) by the name of John Holland('Professor) has become acquainted with the American Navy with some dastardly scheme to build an infernal device direct from 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea! An actual under the surface of the water boat.

U.T.S.O.T Boat for short.

[NFR]

You raise some good points, but I'm personally uncertain of the inevitability of the "big-gun" battleship. I've been hearing some rather alarming news about the proliferation of torpedoes to various lesser maritime Powers. These weapons can generally be loaded onto small, fast boats that can steam in, fire a few at an unsuspecting battleship, sink it, and sail away without coming in range of the guns. Imagine if every little nation with a grudge, like Greece or Serbia, had these weapons and the will to use them. We could very well see the collapse of the modern navy as we know it!

Pa, mobile mines. I will believe mobile mines can be more powerful vhen zey sink battleship. Half ze time zis mines von't blow up, ozer half it misses ze cursed target anyvay.

[Chengar Qordath]

My guess, there will be one more big war left in the world. The whole tiff with Germany over navies will get worked out soon enough, and we'll see an Anglo-German alliance. It's really in the Empire's best interests, Fashoda showed that the French are after our colonies, and everyone knows the Russians have always lusted after India.

It'll be a nice quick and almost bloodless war, and all the boys will be home by Christmas. Just the sort of thing to bring up that good British pride by jingo! The French will probably go back to some distant relative of Boney's as emperor, and the Russians will break up into a a bunch of feudal states, and Britain will finally get those Central Asian Khanates under control and win the Great Game. The US will continue to slowly work it's way back into our good graces, and probably ask for dominion status within thirty years or so. About the only thing left after that is dealing with the yellow menace over in Asia, they may only be savages, but there's a bloody lot of them. Of course we'll give them a good drubbing, and then we can finally go about helping those poor misguided savages. The white man's burden is a heavy thing, but we somehow manage to carry it.

What does everyone think about these women asking for the right to vote? Seems silly to me, they'll just vote the way their husbands tell them to, so it's pretty much redundant anyway.

[Nekromans]

Well, ten years into this new century... It seems that many of our ideas of the Great Powers system may have been a tad... misguided.

When looking back over these past few years, I admit it does seem unlikely, far-fetched, even, to assume that we could ever ally ourselves with France and Russia, of all people! Our former relations with the Germans appear to have gone down the drain somewhat, as we race to build bigger boats than the other.

What do you think?

(OOC: I bumped this to 1910.)

[Thande]

Well, ten years into this new century... It seems that many of our ideas of the Great Powers system may have been a tad... misguided.

When looking back over these past few years, I admit it does seem unlikely, far-fetched, even, to assume that we could ever ally ourselves with France and Russia, of all people! Our former relations with the Germans appear to have gone down the drain somewhat, as we race to build bigger boats than the other.

What do you think?

(OOC: I bumped this to 1910.)
The shock defeat of the Tsar by the Japanese will doubtless be the catalyst for an upsurge of in all the Oriental nations. Expect the Chinese Empire to soon be back on her feet and working to expulse the white man's influence as Japan has.

[Nekromans]

What do you think of the situation in Araby and the Turkish lands? In particular, I point to the various supposedly Turkish states in North Africa (Maroc, Algiers, Tunis, Egypt) which in practice are held by the Great Powers. Perhaps we should send a little note to Tripoli telling them to watch out for an invasion by a neighbour? :D

Although, given the treaty with which we partitioned the lands, the invading party would seem to be... Italy. Hardly the greatest threat to any regime, except possibly their own. :rolleyes:

[KJM]

Expect the Chinese Empire to soon be back on her feet and working to expulse the white man's influence as Japan has.
I wish I could share your optimism on that matter.

[mattep74]

Sweden and Norway split in peace. Thank good. I was called up on manouvers during the summer.

So we had a major labour strike last year and after the results i cant see the unions beeing a major force in the future. The liberals will dominate our politics for atleast half a century more.

We are a underdeveloped country and will continue so until 1999

[KJM]

Y'know, I just thought of something. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and now South Africa... how many of these "Dominions" are the British planning to have?

[LorienTheYounger]

Y'know, I just thought of something. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and now South Africa... how many of these "Dominions" are the British planning to have?
Well, I think the Dominions are only going to be a transitional stage. As the world gets smaller, the Empire will doubtless come closer together politically and the Imperial Federation, with all of the Empire's territory represented in Westminister, will finally become a reality.

[Analytical Engine]

Y'know, I just thought of something. Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and now South Africa... how many of these "Dominions" are the British planning to have?

Well, I've heard that Nigeria is up on the list, somewhere.

I'd think that India would be next, though, followed by the other large Asian colonies.

The colonies Africa would take a while.

What about dominion status for the caribbean colonies or British Guiana?

[Viscount Stanthorpe]

What are you all blathering about? Everyone knows that the coming years will see the rise of the anti-Christ and the last battle - the world is going to come to an end at midnight 31st December 1999. Surely that is not obvious to all civilised men?

:D

[Analytical Engine]

What are you all blathering about? Everyone knows that the coming years will see the rise of the anti-Christ and the last battle - the world is going to come to an end at midnight 31st December 1999. Surely that is not obvious to all civilised men?

:D

What are you talking about, man?

You'r not one of those millenialist types, are you?

[Dr. Nodelescu]

If I remind the massive expansions of the colonial empires, the real entrance of the US into the world stage and what is happening in the Far East, I think we are entering a phase where the histories of nations and continents merge into one world history. And I doubt that the world is already mature enough to be ready for that. I think that in the end the big things will remain or repeat to be same while the small things will make the biggest change. Adultery and sodomy will be legal, but Marxism will fail in the end.

Look at any city in the world: The buildungs have changed, but the city layouts (the way the streets lead) have remained much the same.

[BCO]

I think the aeroplane will make a significant difference in the 20th century.
People will go skiing in Greenland, and back home for supper.

With a third dimension, there will never be congestion in cities, and commerce will flow faster.

By 2000 there might be some sort of merging of lighter than air flight with heavier than air flight, so people will live in the sky, and move about at will.
Maybe there will be aerial farms, factories, offices, sky cities.

[Strategos' Risk]

Our entire way of life is threatened by a group of fanatics who wish to do us ill. The Anarchist menace takes root in our homelands, spreading bile and poisoning the minds of our citizens. We must show no mercy to these evil-doers who hate our freedom. We must spare them no mercy. Better a thousand innocent men are locked up than one anarchist roam free.

[danielb1]

Europe is going to have a big war within the next 10 years or so. Notice how there are now two large alliance systems now: Britain-France-Russia and Germany-Austria-Italy? Balkan influence is going to be a big factor. Which of the former Turkish states will fall under Russian influence, which ones under Austrian or Italian? Or Turkey, for that matter, they're not going to last long. Probably Russia or Greece seizes Constantinople, while the British, French, Italians and Germans decide or fight over who gets the Arab lands. Biggest problem here is that Japan and Russia are both at least theoretically British allies, but they hate each other's guts.

In an outright 3-on-3 war between the "Triple Entente" and the "Triple Alliance", I think the Entente ought to come out on top (unless the US entered on the German side, which I think unlikely, the Alliance will be woefully outmatched in naval power, and Russia is huge enough for Germany to do a repeat of Napoleon), but it would be long and bloody. Austria-Hungary may not survive the war as a single entity, with Hungarian and Slavic splinter states, maybe even an independent Bohemia!

China is going to go for a fall soon. They're government has gotten more and more tenuous of late, and the current Emperor is 3 years old. Russia and Japan may fight again over the north and northeast, with everyone else biting bits out of the southern end.

I don't see the US interfering in European affairs, outside of the West I think the biggest area where we'll make ourselves known is the Pacific.

[TheMann]

I think that America will eventually be the world's greatest power. I think even the Brits and French won't be able to keep with the USA.

[ljofa]

Hmmm,

I think that the USA are definitely the country to watch out for, their President is pretty lacklustre but the vice-President elect, Theodore Roosevelt, is definitely up and coming and his strongly pro-British sentiments might mean that the two English speaking nations might finally put aside their differences and embrace each other as brothers and not as rivals. Certainly the USA owes Britain a lot of money and the two are already strong trading partners. Together they'd be unbeatable. With the age of national alliances upon us, who are Britain going to ally with? Japan?

And it will come at a great time for the Americans, the Germans are still making loud noises about the recent American acquisitions of Cuba, Guam, Puerto Rico and the Philippines as well as the American Samoas so we might see some sort of flashpoint there. There are plenty of Congressmen who want the USA to divest themselves of these gains and it's unclear how much of a fight they'll put up for them.

China will definitely become the next scramble for Africa and a belligerant Russia and Germany will gobble up as much as possible. The Japanese appear to have the natural advantage and the will to tear off a piece for themselves but the Russians won't stand for it and will probably slap down that upstart nation.

With regard Ireland, I think Salisbury's policy of "kindness" will buy off those advocating Home Rule/Independence and it will become a well run and generally loyal member of the Empire.