More powerful RN in post-war era: One way to bring it

[Jukra]

1. Royal Navy - deep cuts in 1945

Now, as a result of reading far too many Jeff Hawke -comics during my childhood and fond memories of listening to Roberts transistor-radio I have certain warmth towards British 1950's technology. As a result of some incurable anglophilia here's my effort to bring on more powerful RN into existence in post-war era. As a limitation I'm trying to keep the effort within realistic economical frame.

POD:

In October 1943 Admial Dudley Pound, First Sea Lord, resigned due to ailing health. He is replaced by Admiral Andrew Cunningham, an admiral who was C-in-C Mediterranean Fleet until then. The war proceeds as in OTL, but close towards end of the war Admiral Cunningham starts a study on what kind of navy Britain and British Commonwealth will need post-war. This work is done in secret from Prime Minister Winston Churchill, as Cunningham cunningly thinks that PM Churchill will try to interfere with it's work.

After VJ-day the inevitable demobilization is at hand and Cunningham presents his program to Clement Attlee who holds both the positions of PM and Minister of Defence. Cunningham knows the civilian politician is most probably interested mostly in cutting the gargantuous amount of military expenditure and manpower, not as much in what is suggested. Furthermore, as basis of the plans it is estimated that no major war will occur before 1955. Cunningham is aware of the experience of 1920's when maintenance of obsolete, useless ships such as HMS Iron Duke class was kept in service eating money and consuming men.

Thus the following radical program is suggested:

1.) Work on four Malta-class carriers will continue on priority basis. Work on four Audacious class carriers will continue. These carrriers can credibly carry the high-performance aircraft of next generation.

2.) Of fleet carriers HMS Victorious, HMS Implacable and HMS Indefatigable will be kept. Rest will be scrapped as due to obsolescense and wartime fatigue they will have no operational value.

3.) Light carriers will be kept in commission or in reserve as situation permits. Some may be sold to Commonwealth or Allied navies. Work on light carriers on slips will continue.

All escort carriers, short of those which will can be used for reasonable auxiliary work, will be scrapped or sold as they will not be able to operate a reasonable number of next generation aircraft.

4.) All battleships will be decommissioned and scrapped. There is no point keeping the battleships even in reserve, as they were only marginally useful during last years of war. Within ten years the advances in technology will make them completely useless. HMS Warspite will be kept as a museum.

[in OTL HMS Vanguard was completed and KGV's put into reserve and even operated for some time.]

5.) Of cruisers six ships of Crown Colony -class will be kept in service and one in reserve. Rest of the cruisers will be scrapped or sold. Six cruisers will be enough for peacetime duties of showing the flag and can also conceivably handle any "leakers" of aerial and submarine effort in case of quick emergency against Russia.

6.) Of destroyers under construction or in service Daring-class will be completed, Battle-class will be kept in service and completed. C, W and Z class respectively will be kept in service until Battle and D-class replacements arrive. After that the ships will be kept in reserve for possible reconstruction. Rest of the destroyers wil be scrapped, sold or given.

7.) Of escorts all current frigates and corvettes will be either scrapped, sold or given to foreign countries. Any future submarine threat will be formed of fast submarines in line of late German XXI or XXIII types. Against this threat no modernization will suffice. Escort destroyers of Hunt-class will also be scrapped, sold or given.

Sloops of Black Swan -class will be kept mainly for colonial use.

8.) Of submarines T-class will be completed and modernized. Amphion-class will be completed (on reduced basis) and modernized. U-class will be scrapped, some number of S-class will be kept.

[Fellatio Nelson]

But that would provide for a largely credible navy until the 1950s/ early 1960s, by which time you'd have to reconfigure the carriers for jet operations and have the rest of the fleet facing block obsolesence (carriers tend to have a longer shelf-life).

There would be a need to build new anti-aircraft, cruisers/destroyers/frigates taking into account the electronic, missile age; new carrier aircraft; new submarine classes (taking full advantage of German designs and also wartime experience).

So the bedevilled post-war economy of UK PLC would have to run a larger navy whilst investing hugely in new capabilities (SSMs, SAMs, radar, shipborne helicopters etc.), to say nothing of nuclear propulsion and larger aircraft carriers: even the Ark Royal/Eagle were pressed to accommodate a decent number of Phantoms and Buccs.

[Jukra]

But that would provide for a largely credible navy until the 1950s/ early 1960s, by which time you'd have to reconfigure the carriers for jet operations and have the rest of the fleet facing block obsolesence (carriers tend to have a longer shelf-life).

Yup, there will be problems but not as large as in OTL when maintenance of useless ships (such as frigates and battleships whether in commission or in reserve) ate up significant portion of funding and also dockyard resources as the British way of having a post-war navy was to upgrade a ship for years and then suddenly scrap it. The RN role will also be somewhat different to OTL.

There would be a need to build new anti-aircraft, cruisers/destroyers/frigates taking into account the electronic, missile age; new carrier aircraft; new submarine classes (taking full advantage of German designs and also wartime experience).

So the bedevilled post-war economy of UK PLC would have to run a larger navy whilst investing hugely in new capabilities (SSMs, SAMs, radar, shipborne helicopters etc.), to say nothing of nuclear propulsion and larger aircraft carriers: even the Ark Royal/Eagle were pressed to accommodate a decent number of Phantoms and Buccs.

These problems existed in OTL and will exist in this ATL. The difference is that some hindsightinium (as compared to handwavium) will be available.

[birdy]

I like it, cept the bit about getting rid of Vanguard but thats only because I like battleships.

[Riain]

Cruisers have the performance to operate with carriers when period destroyers did not. Scrapping almost all the 6" cruisers as well as the battleships and 8" cruisers limits what the carriers can do due to lack of backup.

[Jukra]

2. Late 1940's - uncertainty and ambitious plans

The late 1940's are known as a time of austerity in Great Britain. While life was austere for RN there was certainly a multitude of tasks which bordered on what is today called littoral warfare and low-intensity operations. Political importance was gained, as instead of operating battleships and obsolete reserve cruisers RN manpower and operational effort was directed towards aircraft carriers, amphibious units, Royal Marines and destroyers. In the Eastern Mediterranean an arrangement of patrol aircraft and RM search parties shuttled around with fast destroyers proved to be perfect for demands of guarding the approach towards Palestine.

Before the Korean War the most spectacular incident including Royal Navy was the HMS Amethyst incident. On 20 April 1949 HMS Amethyst, a Black Swan -class sloop, got grounded on Yangtze river under heavy Chinese Communist firing. After negotiations and failed attempt to force the river by another sloop, HMS Consort, the decision was made to use the new resources available to Far Eastern Fleet. These were the light carrier HMS Theseus and her air wing of Seafires and Fireflies, and the RM 40 Commando shipped from Singapore. On 27 April in operation Black Pearl the Commandos, supported by Fireflies of HMS Theseus carried a series of daring night raids against Communist batteries. Meanwhile destroyers HMS Agincourt and HMS Aisne speeded up the Yangtze river to help HMS Amethyst to escape. The operation was a success and was later on dramatized in popular movie The Yangtze Incident, filming of which was strongly supported by RN.

On wider arenas, The Admiralty knew that the most important development project going on was to be development of a British atomic bomb. Ernest Bevin was to have said "We have got to have this thing over here whatever it costs. We’ve got to have the bloody Union Jack on top of it!". The Admiralty thought likewise, except that the Union Jack would be in upper canton of a red St. George's Cross.

The RAF solution to carriage of bomb was issue of specification B.35/46 for a bomber capable of carrying one 10,000 lbs bomb to a target 1500 nautical miles from base with maximum ceiling of 50,000 feet. The bomber would have a weight of some 100 000 lbs.

The Admiralty looked across the ocean to their competitor and ally the USN on how they were handling the situation and came across a different concept; smaller jet bombers operating from forthcoming large, Malta-class fleet carriers. Under Air Ministry specification B.3/45 English Electric was developing a bomber [OTL Canberra] which could fit aboard large carriers and with little tweaking could carry a single atomic bomb to distance of some 700 nautical miles.

Re-design of the design for a carrier-borne atomic bomber would not be easy, but also not impossible. The range would allow bomber to reach all significant targets in Southern Soviet union from Eastern Mediterranean, and Leningrad and Moscow from the North Sea via one-way or air-refuelled missions. Additionally, jet bomber would provide an ideal airframe for conventional maritime and land strike operations as well as long range reconnaissance.

Since having an atomic bomb carrier would be crucial for the future of RN a multitude of lesser program were cancelled without mercy. In a highly controversial decision it was decided that replacement for wartime Fairey Firefly would not be introduced until mid-1950's and thus programs such as Blackburn Firebrand and Westland Wyvern would be cancelled. This was justified because future jet attack aircraft would offer so superior performance that an interim propellor aircraft would not be useful. For fighters the Sea Fury would have to similarly serve until early 1950's before replacement, perhaps DeHavilland's Vampire development (Sea Venom) or Hawker's P.1140 (Sea Hawk) would enter service.

[Jukra]

I like it, cept the bit about getting rid of Vanguard but thats only because I like battleships.

But I kept the HMS Warspite as a museum ship! :)

Cruisers have the performance to operate with carriers when period destroyers did not. Scrapping almost all the 6" cruisers as well as the battleships and 8" cruisers limits what the carriers can do due to lack of backup.

Carriers of this era (as today) have to be served regularly via replenishment-at-sea due to high expenditure of aviation fuel and ammunitions. Therefore a carrier task force was (and is) still dependant on RAS service. On the other hand, a cruiser of the era did not have ability to act as ASW screen. Thus carrier force still had to contain destroyers. Additionally, RN cruisers of the era, with expection of Dido's, did not have high-angle artillery capable of air defense.

[Cockroach]

Nice effort at a TL... but sounds a bloody lot like it's mainly hindsight.

On the issue of the Battleships and Cruisers: At the time it was rather less obvious they were on the way out. I mean actions like North cape showed that there were occasions you couldn't always rely on air support to put paid to enemy surface combatants... and Stalin continued to seriously considering building a battlefleet until he karked it well into the 1950s.

With those facts in mind I'd doubt the RN would be in quite as much of a hurry to be rid of the BBs and CLs.

[whatisinaname]

I like this TL, please continue.

[Jukra]

Nice effort at a TL... but sounds a bloody lot like it's mainly hindsight.

It's true hindsightinium is in use, although I try to avoid use of handwavium. What basic hindsightinium is in use that in this TL RN leadership tries to focus more rigidly than in OTL, which, of course, is hard to explain as RN had in 1945 about 350 years of experience as the world's leading navy in hand.

On the issue of the Battleships and Cruisers: At the time it was rather less obvious they were on the way out. I mean actions like North cape showed that there were occasions you couldn't always rely on air support to put paid to enemy surface combatants... and Stalin continued to seriously considering building a battlefleet until he karked it well into the 1950s.

With those facts in mind I'd doubt the RN would be in quite as much of a hurry to be rid of the BBs and CLs.

In sense that's true, but the action off North Cape was an exception, not a rule during Second World War. Also, even in 1945 it's feasible that far-sighted naval leadership can see that airplanes will soon be able to overcome even the most difficult weather conditions.

It's a question whether to spend resources (ie. manpower and dockyard resources) for the norm or towards exception. Each RN cruiser had a crew of some 700-900 men, each battleship a crew of some 1500 men. Each light carrier had a complement of some 1300 men but a far larger radius of action and far more situations in which it's strike power could be used.

Soviet Navy did not have a battle fleet in 1945, and even if the worst case of immediate build-up is assumed it takes years to build a battlefleet, during the process it may well prove that older CL's and BB's might not be able to even match the newer ship. Public sources assumed that a future Soviet battleship (K-1000) might have 9-12 16"-18" guns, for example.

[CultBoy]

HMS Warspite will be kept as a museum.

For this reason alone I want more of this TL!

But not so sure about getting rid of all the frigates, perhaps later in the timeline the Royal Navy could build some Frigates or Corvettes in the 1000-2000 ton range to provide the ASW screen for its carrier task groups.

[Grimm Reaper]

In France Fights On by Fantistique the decision by the French government to retreat to North Africa and carry on the fight reduces both RN losses and the resource strain on the British, as a result lessons learned are put into effect sooner and as WWII is ending the RN has a pair of proper fleet carriers entering service...

[Andrew Hudson]

Probably even then too costly even if Cunnigham tries to do a Jacky Fisher and there might bre problems with the Sverdlov's in the 50's. Effectively the United States overtook Britain around 1942 and there was no way we could keep up.

[Jukra]

Probably even then too costly even if Cunnigham tries to do a Jacky Fisher and there might bre problems with the Sverdlov's in the 50's. Effectively the United States overtook Britain around 1942 and there was no way we could keep up.

There is certainly no way RN can overtake USN, but there's a lot which can be done to have a better position than OTL. As for Sverdlov's, after submarine and aircraft efforts, RN estimated a couple of Darings would be able to destroy them by gunnery alone, after which there would have been torpedoes. After all, RN had demonstrated this in a perfect destroyer action against IJN CA Haguro as recently as in 1945.

[Jukra]

3. Late 1940's - prestige duties and new forms of attack

In 1947 the Royal Family took a cruise around the nations of Commonwealth with an aircraft carrier HMS Indomitable acting as a Royal Yacht. This was the first time as an aircraft carrier had carried the royals on a cruise and full use was taken of her extensive hangar spaces.

The offensive orientation of Royal Navy was felt within RN Submarine Service too. New A-class and surviving T-class submarines were being modernized with snorkels, radars and new kind of sonar equipment to allow these submarines to fight their battle as true submersibles. In order not to allow itself to remain under shadow of carriers and FAA, the Submarine Service was being electrified to find new ways to prove itself to be useful for peacetime policing actions as well as possible war against Russia. It was not that submariners were not aggressive - it was merely a task to find an acceptable route for this aggresiveness.

Thus under Submarine Service sponsorship the famous Special Boat Service, SBS, was reactivated in 1948 to train for special techniques of submarine-born raids and reconnaissance, useful tasks in peacetime as well as war. Some new A-class submarines were fitted with special electronic reconnaissance gear as well as new night vision periscopes for beach reconnaissance. These arrangements were proved valuable immediately as submarines contributed important intelligence on weapon shipments to MNLA guerrillas in Malaya.

For general war the Submarine Service was pressing for duties to take it to the forefront of offensive against Russia. Some preparations were rather optimistic, such as development of towable underwater barges to supply a group of submarines operating in the Baltic during possible war. Some were plain optimistic and aggressive, as plans for use of submarines for aggressive inshore mining and anti-submarine campaign.

As older boats were modernized the following types of submarines were being intensively studied. It was fairly clear that the wartime submarines would be followed by an improved type incorporating the advances of German Type XXI and advances being developed, but the real question was what would follow afterwards? German Walther-submarine U-1407 was commissioned as HMS Meteorite for studies and two domestic experimental submarines were ordered. Reports on possible atomic powered submarines being developed across the Atlantic were viewed with envy, but not thought yet to be possible in the UK due to financial constraints.

But what was most important was that Submarine Service, like the rest of the RN, was not a training force serving for some unknown mobilization, but a constantly training force in which officers and seamen were constantly gaining sea-time as opposed to simulated sea-time in reserve hulks.


4. The Korean War begins - First reactions

Start of the Korean War caught Britain as the rest of the world by surprise. While larger consequences of this conflict will be described on the next installment, it is important to see what RN was able to contribute to initial United Nations effort.

The RN was quick to react to the crisis with being able to send a carrier HMS Theseus, cruiser HMS Ceylon, two submarines and smaller surface combatants to work under US 7th Fleet Command as Task Force 95. In the early days of war the quick sending of RM 40 Commando was perhaps deemed to be most important, even if it was used as a normal infantry battalion before the Inchon landings.

[whatisinaname]

Another great part, well done :)

[Simon Darkshade]

The C, W and Z destroyers can serve as a useful ASW screen after some sort of Type 15 or Type 16 reconstruction, which can cover ASW needs rather than smaller frigates.

Nice timeline.

Will be interesting to see if GWS-96 gets a run.

[PMN1]

I think you will have to find someone other than Cunnigham or have him make a 180 degree about face.

From D K Brown's 'Nelson to Vanguard.

'Pound's successor, Cunningham, was also a battleship enthusiast. Goodall was given a retirement lunch on 25th January 1944 when Cunningham said that'....there wont be an aircraft carrier afloat in twenty years time. I said I thought the battleship was dead. We are poles asunder.'

Sir Stanley Goodall had worked on RN designs from the G3 class and was Director Naval Constructors from 1936.

D K Brown retired in 1988 as Deputy Chief of Naval Constructors and had access to most if not all of Goodall's notes.

[Jukra]

I think you will have to find someone other than Cunnigham or have him make a 180 degree about face.

Ah, we need an ASB brain transplant, then. :) Unfortunately said book or "Vanguard to Trident" is not available via Finnish library system, so in some respects there will be holes in the story, which hopefully will not be catastrophic. Besides, it's always best IMHO, when readers are able to show holes in story and discussion is created.

I'll be able to continue this TL next week after some real life duties have been performed.

[PMN1]

Ah, we need an ASB brain transplant, then. :) Unfortunately said book or "Vanguard to Trident" is not available via Finnish library system, so in some respects there will be holes in the story, which hopefully will not be catastrophic. Besides, it's always best IMHO, when readers are able to show holes in story and discussion is created.

I'll be able to continue this TL next week after some real life duties have been performed.


Brain transplant it is then as i like the idea of a more powerful RN especially with 4 not 3 Malta class sized carriers.

[PMN1]

Something you could have is the RN adopting a development of the swept wing Hawker P1052 and P.1081.

[Riain]

That would be nice, but the problem of ships themselves still remains, how do you get big, long-lived carriers into the RN while they were still buying such ships?

[Jukra]

5. Planning the future Fleet Air Arm of 1950's - 1947-1950

The structure of air wing for the Malta-class strike carriers was widely discussed during late 1940's. Decision not to order interim propellor planes for FAA before transition to jet fighters was widely criticized within FAA messes. While RAF was introducing new, fast and powerful Meteors and Vampires the FAA would soldier on with wartime Fireflies and piston-engined Sea Furies. Only a few jet planes were being bought for trial purposes. The scarce procurement funds were being directed towards shipbuilding in order to have carriers for the expected generation of powerful new jets.

The lead ship of her class, HMS Malta, was expected to be completed around 1952. The air wing was to be composed of day fighter Hawker Sea Hawk, all weather fighter De Havilland Sea Venom and the crucial strike plane English Electric Canberra. In 1948, as reports of new Soviet advances in aerospace field came to view, it was decided that Sea Hawk would be based upon swept-wing P.1052 instead of more conventional P.1040. Support would be provided by Fairey Gannet ASW planes and initially by Skyraider AEW planes. All these new designs were expected to be in operational use circa 1952.

Smaller carriers would be able to use all the planes bar the EE Canberra of the new generation (An EE Canberra with aid of RATO could take off from smaller carriers but could not land on it) but problems were already at sight as it was expected that new futuristic planes of the mid-to-late 1950's would be heavier and faster than those of the "early 1950's generation". In rooms of the admiralty it was being questioned whether Audacious-class carriers, construction of which was already began during wartime, which were scheduled to be completed after Malta-class, would be really useful?

Similar problems were seen across the pond where USAF and USN were battling over B-36 versus new giant USS United States. The Admiralty took note on "Revolt of the Admirals" and quietly prepared itself for a showdown with the RAF, which was busily designing not one but four bombers with an obvious atomic bombing mission. Unlike the USN, the new EE Canberra was still touted as a long range maritime reconnaissance and strike aircraft. The RN also was tutoring friendship with the Army by using it's Fireflies, with pilots highly skilled in night flying, for close reconnaissance, supply drops and close air support in Malaya.

Note: Thanks for feedback, will proceed with 1950-1952 soon after getting some necessary sourcebooks. The Korean build-up will be the period which is the most crucial for direction of RN in some respects for the rest of the century.

[whatisinaname]

Another excellent part, well done.

[whatisinaname]

Bumping ..... :D