SM Sterling - opinions

[zoomar]

This may be odd for a longtime AH fan, but I only just started reading SM Sterling's Islands on the Sea of Time series. I know it's not true AH, but I'd be interested in knowing what other people think of Sterling as a writer/researcher, as this is my first exposure to him. My initial impression is that he's a much more polished writer than Turtledone and at least as good a historical researcher. Also, I've made it through the first two books of the trilogy and found the narrative quite strong, inspite of the multiple POV characters and scenery switches.

[Norman]

I read the series too, and liked it with some exceptions.

He did great research into the whole proto-indo-european [PIE] language issues, and thought it was fairly accurate. So on the research side he was good. I thought the general story line was good, and unlike a lot of other stories, actually got better.

I disliked many of his characters. For example, what is the chance the commander of the Coast Guard training vessle would be a black Gulah lesbian? You want to start calculating probability on that one?

I did not like how the PIE speakers were basically a bunch of "Hell's Angels in Chariots", while the natives of England were a bunch of new age astronomers. Again, it just was too '21st century'.

Finally, we have the new age indians. He starts out fairly believeable, then he gets out west and we find proto new age indians.

Other wise I thought the books were fun.

[Faeelin]

Too cartoony.

[zoomar]

I read the series too, and liked it with some exceptions.

He did great research into the whole proto-indo-european [PIE] language issues, and thought it was fairly accurate. So on the research side he was good. I thought the general story line was good, and unlike a lot of other stories, actually got better.

I disliked many of his characters. For example, what is the chance the commander of the Coast Guard training vessle would be a black Gulah lesbian? You want to start calculating probability on that one?

I did not like how the PIE speakers were basically a bunch of "Hell's Angels in Chariots", while the natives of England were a bunch of new age astronomers. Again, it just was too '21st century'.

Finally, we have the new age indians. He starts out fairly believeable, then he gets out west and we find proto new age indians.

Otherwise I thought the books were fun.

My impressions have been similar - I haven't gotten seriously to the "new age Indians" yet. I've generally liked the treatment of historical bronze age states and personalities in the Aegean and Tigris/Euphates valleys and how they reacted to their collision with the late 20th century. I too thought the matriarchical mystical "Moon Woman" stuff of the indigenous Albans was a little silly, but had less trouble with the PIE barbarian macho stuff. I also like the notion that Olmecs were (and by extension the later Mesoamerican civilizations would have been) bizarrely "evil" alien cultures by modern standards. I'm not so bothered by the black lesbian Coast Guard training ship captain, because it is made very clear she would have stayed essentially a celibate "in the closet" by the books type in the 20th century. The rapidity with which her liason with Swindapa develops seems both very unrealistic and little preachy to me, however, as does the fact that women in general seem to figure far too prominantly in leadership positions in the Nantucket military than would be realistic. I think some of the best stuff is along the edges: the increasing use of "what would have become" tenses when people discuss the history they come from from, the effect on religion, and the self-conscious way the Nantuckers realize they are messing things up when they contact other bronze age states and peoples - but yet do it anyway. One can speculate what the long term effect of the event might have on the structure of English and views of history and reality. I could easily see future generations of Nantucketers coming to question the actual reality of their own history as a creation myth. Also, Walker and Hong make very delicious bad guys. Walker's shift from eager Coast Guard officer to rebel is very well done but Hong in particular is an interesting speculation on what a warped personality might do in a world where all previous cultural constraints no longer existed.

[Diamond]

Also, Walker and Hong make very delicious bad guys. Walker's shift from eager Coast Guard officer to rebel is very well done but Hong in particular is an interesting speculation on what a warped personality might do in a world where all previous cultural constraints no longer existed.

Those two were my favorite characters in the whole trilogy. Its so much more fun to root for the bad guy...

I always picture James Spader and Lucy Liu playing them if they did a movie. :)

[David Howery]

I liked Walker's character... but dang, couldn't he have picked a better name? Anyone with a casual knowledge of history knows where it came from... the minute I saw it, I knew just what his role in the book was going to be....

[Scott Rosenthal]

Diamond: PERFECT casting for Walker and Hong! Spader is a bit less athletic than I would have thought necessary for the part, but he is so deliciously slimy that I believe he would be ideal... As for Liu, absolutely spot on!

[Prunesquallor]

The series is enjoyable but I got the impression it was being turned out, as it were, to order. Even the little bit at the end which gives room for a sequel if it looks profitable.
Grouses- how likely is it that this one little coastguard vessel contains two military geniuses and a Stasi agent? Little bits of knowingness- the character of Hook, for instance. Far fetched plotting- the Nantucket agent in Walker's territory. As I've pointed out before, the inability of writers of Stirling's type to find any basis for a belief which they oppose other than rank stupidity. Look at the ludicrous stereotype of Pamela Lisketter.

[zoomar]

Diamond: PERFECT casting for Walker and Hong! Spader is a bit less athletic than I would have thought necessary for the part, but he is so deliciously slimy that I believe he would be ideal... As for Liu, absolutely spot on!


I agree. I sort of had the visual image of Kurt Russell for Walker, though. Liu, though, is great. I can't wait for the movie ;)

[zoomar]

As I've pointed out before, the inability of writers of Stirling's type to find any basis for a belief which they oppose other than rank stupidity. Look at the ludicrous stereotype of Pamela Lisketter.

I don't know..anthropology departments are full of people who think just like Lisketter. I've know plenty.

[David Howery]

Not to give anything away, but I was rather disappointed in the 3rd book... too many things going on at once, and the finale was rather disappointing, regarding Walker anyway. Stirling left himself a hook to continue the series... is he going to?

[Diamond]

Not to give anything away, but I was rather disappointed in the 3rd book... too many things going on at once, and the finale was rather disappointing, regarding Walker anyway. Stirling left himself a hook to continue the series... is he going to?

On the old board somebody, Scott Blair maybe?, posted a link to a site where there is a preview of what looks like a sequel of sorts, but taking place in OTL 20th c. dealing with the results of Nantucket disappearing. Didn't look very intriguing.

And as for casting, what about Angela Bassett as M. Alston? We've already seen that she has good on-screen antagonistic chemistry with Spader ('Supernova').

[MerryPrankster]

"taking place in OTL 20th c. dealing with the results of Nantucket disappearing. Didn't look very intriguing"

It's called Dies the Fire and apparently the Nantucket Event causes all internal-combustion engines and electricity to cease functioning and guns to "fizzle" when they fire (means that the bullet doesn't get far). If all pre-Event tech shuts down but new stuff can be made, that disruption won't last long; however, if the Event causes permanent changes to the laws of physics, we're screwed.

Personally, I didn't think too highly of it either, but that's based on an excerpt that was posted. I rather wish Stirling would come up with more "Draka" stories or perhaps write a sequel to "Peshawar Lancers" (besides the little story in the anthology, which I thought was darn good).

[Norman]

"taking place in OTL 20th c. dealing with the results of Nantucket disappearing. Didn't look very intriguing"

It's called Dies the Fire and apparently the Nantucket Event causes all internal-combustion engines and electricity to cease functioning and guns to "fizzle" when they fire (means that the bullet doesn't get far). If all pre-Event tech shuts down but new stuff can be made, that disruption won't last long; however, if the Event causes permanent changes to the laws of physics, we're screwed.


Isn't even original, there was a short story written about 25 years ago (maybe more) in which ASB's use a damper to suppress all the things you mention, causing great death and destruction as humans attept to compensate. They do it because humans are advancing to quickly and threaten the peaceful existence of the ASBs

It ends by having humans secretly build ships (25 years later or so) and take over the alien spacecraft and its damper.

[zoomar]

"It's called Dies the Fire and apparently the Nantucket Event causes all internal-combustion engines and electricity to cease functioning and guns to "fizzle" when they fire (means that the bullet doesn't get far). If all pre-Event tech shuts down but new stuff can be made, that disruption won't last long; however, if the Event causes permanent changes to the laws of physics, we're screwed"


This sounds weird. Is the Event just a by productof the dampening? Is the dampening a deliberate act by ASB's? It does appear he lays some vague groundwork for this in present trilogy by having his characters speculate that the event seems somehow a deliberate act.

[Scott Rosenthal]

I agree. I sort of had the visual image of Kurt Russell for Walker, though. Liu, though, is great. I can't wait for the movie ;)

Yes, Russell was my image of Walker too, but he is a bit old for the role now, and a bit too 'blue collar', as I always thought of Walker as more slick than anything else...

[Admiral Matt]

The Nantucketers fight the Brits in a few big battles, and they adopt all the cute little blonde orphans and keep adopting those few available later.

The Nantucketers shatter Mexican society with plague and send in regular punitive expeditions, and . . . nothing. Too bad the kids're brown, eh?

[wkwillis]

This may be odd for a longtime AH fan, but I only just started reading SM Sterling's Islands on the Sea of Time series. I know it's not true AH, but I'd be interested in knowing what other people think of Sterling as a writer/researcher, as this is my first exposure to him. My initial impression is that he's a much more polished writer than Turtledone and at least as good a historical researcher. Also, I've made it through the first two books of the trilogy and found the narrative quite strong, inspite of the multiple POV characters and scenery switches.

I've read most of what he's written and met him once or twice. He's strange, but not stranger than most science fiction and fantasy writers. I'm an inventor and we are the only people to outscore SFWA on stubborness, so it's not like I'm throwing stones.

[Diamond]

What about Britney Spears or Jessica Simpson? Neither one can act their way out of a paper bag, but that's probably just the touch needed for the role... :)

[Grimm Reaper]

Personally I really can't stand the progressives who wish to remake everyone in their own image throughout history, except for certain favored groups who are to be forgiven their sins. I was once in a college class and discussing the rise of the Zulus, based on the 'Washing of the Spears' arguably the finest book on it. I received several shrieks as to how 'savage' the Zulu lifestyle was portrayed as. My puzzled response was to note that the Zulus went from less than 400 men to battling the British Empire in less than a century. They must have been doing something right! Then I offered a few choice examples of European custom in the 19th century.

Yes, I am cruel. :p

Norman, I mention yet another story in this venue: It was called 'Pax Galactica' by Ralph Williams, about 27 pages long. I found it in volume one of Imperial Stars: The Stars at War, created by Jerry Pournelle. The book was in 1986, the story first appeared in Astounding Science Fiction, November 1952 issue.

The aliens determine to stop not only atomic energy/weapons but seed the atmosphere with an 'inhibitor' to prevent combustion engines, gunpowder, aircraft, etc. in the hope of creating a more peaceful and civilized society on earth.

Well, I'm sure they thought it was a good idea...

[joatsimeon@aol.com]

I don't know..anthropology departments are full of people who think just like Lisketter. I've know plenty.

-- me too. Incidentally, Alice Hong is a Tuckerization.

[sbegin]

I really enjoyed the "Island" trilogy. However, with the few other Sterling books I've read (Island, Conquistador, Dies the fire) he seems to be repeating the characters a lot.

[RealityBYTES]

I've enjoyed Stirling's Draka series of books — good escapism, although I'm more than happy it's not "my" timeline the stories are taking place in.

RealityBYTES

[LordKalvan]

I really enjoyed the "Island" trilogy. However, with the few other Sterling books I've read (Island, Conquistador, Dies the fire) he seems to be repeating the characters a lot.
That's unfortunately is just the truth: Stirling is a good artisan, writes certainly better than Turtledove, has a very good grasp of commercial issues and fidelization. The other side of the coin is that he has just a few (very few) ideas, and a lot of repetitive stereotypes.
In the fifties, he would have starved. In our age, he makes a very good living (like Turtledove - but just think what the author of the fifties would have been)

[Kit]

Ummm, did you miss the thread in the chat forum a week or two ago?

You do realise that JoatSimeon is S. M. Stirling don't you?

[Prunesquallor]

I like his books, by and large. But his use of coincidence (two military heroes and a Stasi agent on board one small ship?), his habit (as I've pointed out before) of denying any sort of intelligence whatsoever to his ideological opponents, his illogical plotting, his in jokes, his fascination (despite his disclaimers) with survivalist wet dreams, are not exactly assets.

[Straha]

his draka books are good but the timeline is implausible...

[eschaton]

He's a good writer compared to, say, Turtledove. Most Turtledove books could be compacted into books 1/4th of their length, wheras Stirling's stuff is usually paced fairly well.

On the other hand, some of the themes he brings up over and over are rather...disturbing...to me. I don't mean because he is (I am guessing) politically on the right. I have enjoyed right-wing authors like Stephen Barnes and Larry Niven no problem before.

But as other's have said, Stirling repeatedly mocks those he disagrees with. He paints the 'cultural left', idealists of any sort, and political correctness in general as being a bunch of one-dimensional idiots. His books tend to center around survivalist themes. I think that, while he can portray women as very intelligent and capable, he is a bit of a throwback as to gender relations because his male characters, unless they are plot foils, are typically super-macho. His evil characters are a bit too 'evil' for my liking. I have always thought the best villians are the ones who are at least a bit more conflicted, and believe they are bringing order and goodness to the world, but ends justify the means. For me, he spends too much time discussing battles as well, but military science-fiction typically bores me.

Essentially, I think Stirling has a deep distrust and dislike for modernity. Not the technology per-se, but the attitudes related to it. He idealizes, even romanticizes, the adventure that was allowed in the more free-spirited past. I see him as being a LARPer who has grown up, but that's just my impression.

[NapoleonXIV]

Ummm, did you miss the thread in the chat forum a week or two ago?

You do realise that JoatSimeon is S. M. Stirling don't you?

What makes you say that?? Not disputing, just would like to know.

[Ivan Druzhkov]

What makes you say that?? Not disputing, just would like to know.

I think JoatSimeon is his screen name at SHWI.

[Kit]

Yeah, that's his username on google groups.

[zoomar]

[QUOTE=eschaton]
But as other's have said, Stirling repeatedly mocks those he disagrees with. He paints the 'cultural left', idealists of any sort, and political correctness in general as being a bunch of one-dimensional idiots. His books tend to center around survivalist themes. I think that, while he can portray women as very intelligent and capable, he is a bit of a throwback as to gender relations because his male characters, unless they are plot foils, are typically super-macho. His evil characters are a bit too 'evil' for my liking. I have always thought the best villians are the ones who are at least a bit more conflicted, and believe they are bringing order and goodness to the world, but ends justify the means. QUOTE]



I'm not sure I agree entirely. He often features strong female (and occasionally homosexual) heroes - which doesn't necessarily sound like a cultural right-winger to me. Plus, sorry to say, a lot of academically-inclined PC leftists DO sound like Lisketter. Nonetheess, I do agree alot of his characters seem like plot foils drawn simply to make some broader points, and that he seems ill-disposed to much of modernity (as am I). I just am not sure he is doing this from a strictly right-wing perspective. After all, he's also had foolish religious bigots and others like that. He does enjoy seeing these folks get their comeuppances.

[Acrosome]

I have to say I enjoy Stirling's AH and cross-dimensional stuff a lot more that Turtledove's for precisely the reasons mentioned earlier.

Turtledove's stories, while AMAZINGLY well thought out and with OUTSTANDING character development for the genre, just drag on interminably. I have finished some books of his but never an entire series. (Obviously I mention Turtledove because he is the other generally-recognised current grandmaster of AH.)

Stirling seems to have the pace down better and certainly is an outstanding researcher. Serendipitously I seem to like the same technological subjects that he favors. I'm intrigued my semi-primitive technology (like flintlocks, steam engines, ironworking, etc) because I could conceivably learn to make and use them myself if I were in the same shoes as, say, the Nantucket folk. Conversely I would never be able to forge aluminum or manufacture an integrated circuit. And while most of his works center on "obsolete" technology and primitive lifestyles he is hardly hidebound on the subject. His Draka series continues on through early spacefaring into into a high-powered superscience age, and I also have a bit of a scifi interest. Modern day is boring. Hell, I live there.

That said, I have to agree with some of the complaits I have heard- primarily the one about Stirling's apparent adolescent fixation on kinky sex. Personally I could care less about this since every writer must adress the subject somehow (including deciding NOT to address it) but I guess I understand why others find it more disturbing. I can gloss over those scenes and still enjoy the story- unlike when I find a glaring factual error, such as some pinhead writing about "the 45-millimeter Colt M1911" or such drivel. Fact-check, for the love of God! And also remember that a lot of these books, in fact, ARE marketed to adolescent males. They expect a little wish-fulfillment in their entertainment and if you think kinky sex and (usually) violence don't figure into those wishes then you've never been an adolescent male.

On the subject of "disturbing," I will grant that Stirling often dwells on dark subject matter. I caution you, however, to remember that throughout most of history life was dark, brutal, and short. Stirling merely acknowledges this. His battle scenes are brutal and, I will admit, with some graphic imagery. But let's be honest, which do you think was a more accurate representation of what happens when a man stands next to a high-order detonation: "The Longest Day" or "Saving Private Ryan"? How about swordplay: "Ben Hur" or "Gladiator"? I think Stirling is just being as meticulous with his battle scenes as he is with his research. (Also, my interests tend toward militaria so the battle scenes are what it's all about for me.)

On the same note I thought he was incredibly brave to address chattel slavery as centrally as he did in the Draka series and, admit it, the series was MUCH more interesting because of it. One could argue about whether the Draka were the "good guys" or "bad guys" in the series but they certainly sink the proposition that Stirling's charaters are either all-good or all-bad. They obviously WERE evil and I would have given my life to oppose them if I were living in that TL's America but they were mature villains in that they didn't KNOW that they were evil and only thought they were protecting their way of life. "We are not a populous people, and nobody loves us." He has been attacked extensively for writing about these piratical slaveholding rapist protagonists. If I may (mis)quote: "There is a term for people who mistake the opinions of a character for those of the writer. They are called idiots."

That said, yes, I noticed that character development was a little lacking in the Nantucket series and that the characters were sterotyped. Walker was not very ambiguous as a villain. He was definitely an evil self-serving sociopath and remained one throughout the series. The central Nantucket characters were all well-meaning and competent, and remained so throughout the series. I could defend this on the grounds that it was intended to be an interesting intellectual exercise about technology and anthropology and not great literature but he still could have done better. Also, I live near Seattle so I can attest that Pamela Lisketter is alive and well.

You can argue about how likely a Gulah lesbian iado-master Coast Guard captain really is, but you will always find someone dismissing ANY AH because "that would never happen." Operation Sealion could never have succeeded. The CSA could never have won the Civil War militarily. And a slaveholding western industrialized society would never have survived into the 1900's. But don't they all make DAMNED interesting reading? I think Peshawar Lancers was genius, and a far too often overlooked Stirling work, even as impossible as the migration is.

Where the nantucket series was very disappointing was the ending. Walker seemed to die out of the blue as an afterthought and I was left thinking "Wait, what just happened here?" I will acknowledge that some form of internal squabble would be more likely to end the Walker reign at that point than would a military victory by the Nantucket forces but if that were to be the case then Stirling should have developed that subplot a little instead of producing it deus-ex-machina when he reached his page limit. Damn, that one grated on me. I felt cheated. I guess primarily because I was expecting such great things from the man.

Like many others, I wish he could overcome his personal squabbles with his publishers and write more Draka or Nantucket novels. Hell, even Peshawar novels. I would buy them in hardcover. But then I've never been screwed by a publisher.

So I guess I have no GLARING criticisms of Stirling- just a few minor annoyances that I can ignore. Maybe some day I will write my own "perfect" AH novel but I doubt it- it's too much work! All that research must drag on and on.

If JoatSimeon is out there:

Hey, they asked for my opinion. Feel free to flame me should you feel the inclination. And what the hell is a Tuckerization?

[Prunesquallor]

Wilson Tucker used the names of SF fans in his novels. So it means the use of a name from a different context in an sf novel.

And where does the Orwell quore come from? It's new to me.

[Acrosome]

Honestly? I got the Orwell quote off of a poster that was included in an issue of Soldiers magazine a while back, and I have no idea what work it comes from. (I'm active duty US Army.)

[Prunesquallor]

I suspect the quote might have been new to Orwell.

[joatsimeon@aol.com]

[QUOTE=eschaton].

>He paints the 'cultural left', idealists of any sort, and political correctness in general as being a bunch of one-dimensional idiots.

-- like the Wiccan folk-singer heroine of "Dies the Fire", or the people in the "Island" series who have an idealistic dedication to town-meeting democracy?

The director of "Thelma and Louise" was once asked if it was an anti-male movie.

The reply: "No, it's an anti-idiot movie".

I'm an equal-opportunity mocker.

You might say I showed a certain favoritism to hard-headed common sense, and a distinct contempt for woolly-mindedness. Nor is the latter a new invention; Gilbert and Sullivan were making fun of the same sort of people 140 years ago.

>His books tend to center around survivalist themes.

-- adventure generally involves people in situations where their survival is in doubt.

[eschaton]

[QUOTE=eschaton].

>He paints the 'cultural left', idealists of any sort, and political correctness in general as being a bunch of one-dimensional idiots.

-- like the Wiccan folk-singer heroine of "Dies the Fire", or the people in the "Island" series who have an idealistic dedication to town-meeting democracy?

The director of "Thelma and Louise" was once asked if it was an anti-male movie.

The reply: "No, it's an anti-idiot movie".

I'm an equal-opportunity mocker.

You might say I showed a certain favoritism to hard-headed common sense, and a distinct contempt for woolly-mindedness. Nor is the latter a new invention; Gilbert and Sullivan were making fun of the same sort of people 140 years ago.

>His books tend to center around survivalist themes.

-- adventure generally involves people in situations where their survival is in doubt.

I'm not saying that your perspective is wrong, or you do it badly. I think you do it quite well. But the same themes are repeated in most of your series and standalone books. While I know that that each of your books is a thought experiment first (the "What If..."), and a background for a grand, classic adventure second, I think it would make for more sucessful writing if you mixed up the themes and character development on the tertiary level. You have a fairly large (for science-fiction) fanbase now, and people who have read more than one book of yours and are aware of your points of view on the fuzzy minded. Larry Niven, last I checked, had been a pretty committed Libertarian for many, many years. He deals with the theme in some of his books, in others it is barely touched upon. I think that concentrating on one or two 'political' themes at a time would help in your work too.

On the total flipside of my science fiction reading, I like the work of Sherri S. Tepper very much. Like you, she is a talented writer. But she has written the same book for the past 10 years over and over, with different characters and settings, and consistantly beaten the same eccentric points about feminism she has into every book. There is always some weird conspiracy of evil men who manipulate things behind the scenes, and some plucky female (and sometimes male) protagonists save the day. It's very tiring, despite agreeing with most of what she writes from an ideological perspective.

On the survivalist theme: As a counter example consider Manifold: Origin by Stephan Baxter. The protagonists end up stranded on an alternate moon that passes through many different universes. There is much adventure, indluding chases, sickness, beatings, fights, enslavement, you name it. But there is not a great deal of discussion into the making of weapons, the hunting and killing of large animals, the practicalities of fire-starting, how to develop a shelter, etc. I'm not saying you are wrong to discuss all of the latter (it's probably more realistic than all the stories where no one does), but yes, I would say that the concentration your books often have on the procurement of food and shelter could be considered 'survivalist'. And there is nothing wrong with that, save for the fact that, as I said above, it would be interesting if you mixed it up a bit more.

[Prunesquallor]

Tolkien once remarked to L Spague de Camp that he disliked Dunsany's DISTRESSING TALE OF THANGOBRIND THE JEWELLER with its ending where Dunsany for the sake of a joke pricked his own illusion. I must confess I view things like Hook in ON THE OCEANS OF ETERNITY in much the same way. Yet again, these characters who can't even fart or chew gum! In the great dystopian novels, the spokesmen for the other side are always more intelligent and articulate than the hero, Ostrog/Graham, Mond/the Savage, O'Brian/Smith. These are not simple caricatures.

[Thande]

I wasn't aware Tolkien was acquainted with de Camp...that's interesting.

[Prunesquallor]

Have a look at Ch IX of De Camp's LITERARY SWORDSMEN AND SORCERERS.

[joatsimeon@aol.com]

[QUOTE=eschaton]but yes, I would say that the concentration your books often have on the procurement of food and shelter could be considered 'survivalist'.

-- if you're in a situation where food and shelter are lacking, you become preoccupied with food and shelter. It's grossly unrealistic to show characters as _not_ being occupied, and in some circumstances obsessed, with these concerns if that's their situation.

And most people, throughout most of history, have spent a lot of their time avoiding death by hunger and exposure, and engaging in endless toil to avoid them. Note the emphasis on fertility and weather in most religions. Until recently, most people have been farmers and very poor farmers at that. Everyone else depended on farmers in a very direct fashion, and knew it.

This doesn't apply to the characters in, for example, "Drakon".

They don't spend much time concerned with such matters because they're urbanites in a stable, technologically advanced capitalist society, like us.

They're concerned with money, power and personal relationships instead. This is perfectly logical; food and shelter are solved problems from their p.o.v.

In, say, "Dies the Fire", people spend a lot of time worrying about food because the majority of the world's population and the overwhelming majority in the Pacific Northwest are in the process of _starving to death_. Or dying of plague and chaos-spawned violence.

I like Baxter's work but the people tend to be too much like modern middle-class types sometimes, in situations where that set of concerns just isn't applicable.

[MerryPrankster]

I haven't been to this thread in awhile and I come back and lo and behold, we've got the real S.M. Stirling here. Whoa.

What're you currently working on now? I really liked Peshawar Lancers and "Shikari in Galveston" (though I would prefer a surviving semi-United States, perhaps in California). Will you ever do a sequel?

[Rahul]

Mr. Stirling, I just wanted to let you know that I really enjoyed reading your "Peshawar Lancers" novel and that short story of yours from "Worlds That Weren't" though I can't remember its title.

And, I'm interested as well about what you're writing EDIT:currentlyEDIT/.

[eschaton]

While everyone else is saying it, let me also say that the Peshawar Lancers is, IMHO, your best work (I have not read the Draka series however). It has a very distinctive tone compared to your other work, and it's a world I would enjoy seeing you explore further, as many others have voiced.

[RealityBYTES]

S.M. Stirling:

It's always good to see authors mingling with their readers, even if we don't always agree 100 percent with each other! That said, you've already got one guaranteed sale — me! — if you ever decide to continue the Draka series of books.

RealityBYTES

[Diamond]

While everyone else is saying it, let me also say that the Peshawar Lancers is, IMHO, your best work (I have not read the Draka series however). It has a very distinctive tone compared to your other work, and it's a world I would enjoy seeing you explore further, as many others have voiced.
I completely agree. The Peshawar Lancers is in my top three favorite alternate history novels, and is without a doubt the most unique and inventive.

[NapoleonXIV]

Coals to Newcastle indeed, but Peshawar Lancers is the best AH novel I've ever read. The concept is perfect, neither so far departed from OTL as to be unrecognizable, nor so close as to be uninteresting; and utilizing one of the most interesting locations and periods available in a really original way.

But more than that the characters are engaging and human, real people who we feel with and for even in these very unusual situations. Your villian in particular is one of the best I've ever seen, a truly and thoroughly evil individual who yet excites our admiration for his cleverness and integrity to his own ideals.

[joatsimeon@aol.com]

What're you currently working on now?h

-- the sequels to "Dies the Fire", and a new series about an AH in which Mars and Venus turn out rather differently when we get around to investigating them in the 1950's and 60's.

>I really liked Peshawar Lancers and "Shikari in Galveston" (though I would prefer a surviving semi-United States, perhaps in California). Will you ever do a sequel?

-- possibly. So many books, so little time... 8-).

[softsponge]

Sure as hell my favourite work of yours after Marching through Georgia :)

[Dave Howery]

yes, it is an exceptional book... except for the part where the ruined US is occupied by the insufferable Brits.. shame on you.. :)

[softsponge]

lmao i think its fair revenge for Stirling saying the British Isles are dismal and gloomy :D

[eschaton]

I might as well post this in here where Mr. Stirling might see it, since he is working on Sequals to Dies The Fire.

I think given the situations in the book, the most advanced remaning state in the country would be Vermont. Mainly because Vermont is actually the most rural state in the country, with most of the farms still fairly small and individually farmed (plus, a disproportianate number of organic farms)). It's also too isolated from any major urban areas (except Maybe Boston, if people used bikes), for there to be an influx of refugees who destroy the economy. It's also small enough to reasonably still be governed by the state-house, and has a tradition of town meetings, like most of Northern New England. I actually think that the majority of the population there would survive.

I'm fairly sure, given that most of the book takes place in the Northwest, we aren't going to see Vermont, but it would be interesting.

Oh, and have you read Jared Diamond's new book Collapse yet? There is an interesting opening chapter about Montana where he concludes if Montana was cut off from the rest of the United States that the state would suffer an easter-island style depopulation.

[GBW]

I think Ian Arnstein from the Island in the Sea of Time Trilogy seems remarkably similar to another real life author... Was this a conscious effort on your part?

[joatsimeon@aol.com]

I think Ian Arnstein from the Island in the Sea of Time Trilogy seems remarkably similar to another real life author... Was this a conscious effort on your part?

-- I deny everything... 8-).

Take a look at the tank gunner named "Michael Pound", with his almost-Canadian accent, in the "American Empire" series.

Or the Secret Service agents in John Birmingham's "Weapons of Choice".

[Bulldawg85]

He paints the 'cultural left', idealists of any sort, and political correctness in general as being a bunch of one-dimensional idiots.


Sometimes some of them are and not just the ones in the colleges. I recently had an argument with my sister and she actually said that chemicals are not wmd's because they only kill in a small radius!!! I actually laughed at her about that.

In any case, what ever happened to "The Laughter of the Guns", the prequel to the Draka?

[Thande]

Heh, I hadn't realised that about Sergeant Pound in "Great War". Good one.

[MerryPrankster]

In any case, what ever happened to "The Laughter of the Guns", the prequel to the Draka?

I heard that Stirling and Mr. Baen had some sort of dispute and Baen will no longer publish Draka books. Few other publishers are interested in publishing sequels (or prequels) to books whose rights were bought by competitors, so there won't be any more Draka books.

At least that's what I've heard. Mr. Stirling can explain his side of the story when he re-visits this thread, I suppose.

[Faeelin]

He paints the 'cultural left', idealists of any sort, and political correctness in general as being a bunch of one-dimensional idiots.



ISOT had a black lesbian admiral. Not exactly your archetype conservative, there.

[RealityBYTES]

I heard that Stirling and Mr. Baen had some sort of dispute and Baen will no longer publish Draka books. Few other publishers are interested in publishing sequels (or prequels) to books whose rights were bought by competitors, so there won't be any more Draka books.

At least that's what I've heard. Mr. Stirling can explain his side of the story when he re-visits this thread, I suppose.

My hope springs eternal that someday we'll see "And Unto Them a Child" in hardcover and/or paperback. Or "Laughter" for that matter or any other sort of official Draka continuance.

RealityBYTES

[joatsimeon@aol.com]

[QUOTEIn any case, what ever happened to "The Laughter of the Guns", the prequel to the Draka?[/QUOTE]

-- it's on indefinite hold, for business reasons. Also, I've 'moved on' personally.

[Ivan Druzhkov]

Um, if you are S.M. Stirling, could you please tell me what, exactly, In the Time of the Red Death is about, and why it has never appeared on shelves?

[joatsimeon@aol.com]

Um, if you are S.M. Stirling, could you please tell me what, exactly, In the Time of the Red Death is about, and why it has never appeared on shelves?

-- 'twas about an alternate plague in the 1760's, and it's never appeared because the editor preferred another proposal. So many books, so little time... 8-).

[I Jay Bridenstine]

The island in the sea of time books seem to be linked to the new series that Sterling just finished. I would love to know if he is going to either expand more with the protector series or give it a new twist with the "alien space bats" coming into the situation

[Jack_Straw]

Personally, I hope we neither see nor hear from the ASB's.Keeps a certain sense of mystery, I think. "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!"