How do you imagine the Evil Fundie US?

[Admiral Canaris]

Inspired by MerryPrankster's thread in the serious history forum... the nightmare of liberals everywhere!

"It's huge. It's fundie. It's the United States of America.

"Stretching from Greenland and Alaska to the Panama Canal, this great empire is ruled by a line of hereditary monarchs called "Presidents", though the Brotherhood of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the churchly Congregation of Faith also wield vast influence. Religion is its only law, the Constitution two sentences affirming the predominance of the Bible over the rules of mortals. With the greatest economy and military on the planet, the USA is unassailable by any adversary, save for by a mutually destructive nuclear war; neither economic incentives nor military action can disrupt its government. Change, if there can be such a thing, must come from within."

With these premises (Fundie theocratic/totalitarian US making up all of North America), sketch what you think the policies, domestic and foreign, of the fundie state will be, based on (an ultra-fundie Evangelical interpretation of) the Bible. You can also write on its history. The POD isn't set, making for flexibility; technology is arbitrarily the same as IOTL, as is the economy (in strength, though particular trades may differ). The US is at least as powerful politically and militarily as IOTL, and its people are as loyal and under control as Iranians in the Islamic Republic of OTL.

[godsown1991]

Inspired by MerryPrankster's thread in the serious history forum... the nightmare of liberals everywhere!

"It's huge. It's fundie. It's the United States of America.

"Stretching from Greenland and Alaska to the Panama Canal, this great empire is ruled by a line of hereditary monarchs called "Presidents", though the Brotherhood of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan and the churchly Congregation of Faith also wield vast influence. Religion is its only law, the Constitution two sentences affirming the predominance of the Bible over the rules of mortals. With the greatest economy and military on the planet, the USA is unassailable by any adversary, save for by a mutually destructive nuclear war; neither economic incentives nor military action can disrupt its government. Change, if there can be such a thing, must come from within."

With these premises (Fundie theocratic/totalitarian US making up all of North America), sketch what you think the policies, domestic and foreign, of the fundie state will be, based on (an ultra-fundie Evangelical interpretation of) the Bible. You can also write on its history. The POD isn't set, making for flexibility; technology is arbitrarily the same as IOTL, as is the economy (in strength, though particular trades may differ). The US is at least as powerful politically and militarily as IOTL, and its people are as loyal and under control as Iranians in the Islamic Republic of OTL.


Foreign Policy of Fundie America

American foreign policy is really quite simple. The nations of Europe, though weaker by far, are treated as brothers...provided they follow the same rules. After the example made of France in the Three Days War, however, many do. Africa has returned to its ancient place as a slave-creation area. The predominant language is, of course, American. Asian nations act in the same capacity, barring certain nations, such as Japan and South Korea, who wised up and switched to the new American form of government. China, however, has become a particular favorite of slave catchers following the Great Holy War that destroyed the atheistic government there. South America, while not officially a slave area, is treated like dirt, thanks to the large number of Catholics living inside.

[BlackWave]

Here's my take on education:

In schools, pupils are effectively indoctrinated into being good, devout evangelical christians. Creatonism is widespread and pupils are taught that America was the first thing to be created in the seven days of creation. If pupils question this, and occurences such as this are extremely rare, then they are either sent to a child offender's prison in Alaska for 're-education'. Other than that, hate preaching is also part of the circullum. Children are taught to venomously despise atheism, liberalism, communism, and anything the government deems inappropiate. PE is also a strong part, with the image of the good American being a fit and strong man, and children who prove inadequate in this subject are often ostrachised and bullied by teachers. History ties in with Religious education, with pupils taught of the Great Flood and how it supposedly killed off the dinosaurs. Geography is minimal, with children taught of how God saw fit to create the various beautiful geological landscapes of North America. Art and music are mostly free from state intervention, but subliminal or anti-establishment pieces of work are banned. Universities are restricted to the very rich or priveledged, for fear that they could become a breeding ground for 'liberal poison'.

[Admiral Canaris]

What, no others? On this liberal board?

[admkenshin]

What, no others? On this liberal board?

The things is, I find it highly doubtful that a fundie USA would be the worlds most powerful nation, or have the same level of economic or technological advancement as today. Sure, it would still be powerful, it's sheer size would see to that, and it could certainly have a military capable of stopping any invasion, but in my opinion it would be a second world nation.

It all depends on how the change came about however, and when. If it happened in, say, the 1980's, then I could see it happen, but how is one supposed to make the 1980 USA fundamentalist?

[Admiral Canaris]

It's ASB, the changes can be entirely arbitrary. That's the reason I put it here instead of just writing in Merry's post-1900 althist thread; I didn't want to be constrained by realism, as I view a theocratic USA as such as fundamentally implausible (barring something like an apocalyptic nuclear war to induce it).

[admkenshin]

It's ASB, the changes can be entirely arbitrary. That's the reason I put it here instead of just writing in Merry's post-1900 althist thread; I didn't want to be constrained by realism, as I view a theocratic USA as such as fundamentally implausible (barring something like an apocalyptic nuclear war to induce it).

Well then, here we go:

Excerpts from the PSIA Factbook on the USA:

The United States of America, in its current version, was created in 1982 after a successful coup led by fundamental christian extremists. It is formally a theocracy, although the upper echelons that rule it are not believed to follow the same rigid standards enforced upon the population. Its legal system is heavily based upon interpretion of biblical texts. It has no elective system, but claims that their President is elected by God.

The USA is one of the worlds most important economies. It is chiefly agrarian, but heavy military industry is plentiful. Farming equipment and ship-building is also a big industry. The USA employs little in the way of industrial robots or advanced production techniques, making its industry very inefficient, however the large population more than compensates for this, by working in almost inhumane conditions.

American agrarian exports are very important to the western world. In Japan, as much as 80% of all food imports come from the USA. All trade is made through the governmental agency for international trade and evangelism, and the main exchange is heavy industrial equipment and advanced electronics in exchange for agrarian products. Many of the worlds larger ships are also built in the USA.

While the US foreign office states that its aim is to spread the word of God to the world, fact is that the majority of the USAs population is almost entirely isolated, however businessmen and politicians often make journeys overseas.

The US military is the single most powerful in the world, and although it is outdated its equipment is generally reliable. The army is mostly deployed in the COTUS, always prepared to fend off an invasion, as well as suppressing revolts. The navy operates bases around the world, however these are isolated (OOC: think guantanamo) and most countries prohibits any nuclear capacity or aircraft carriers of the USA in their waters.

The US Air Force has more planes than the rest of the world combined, although most are outdated designs. Lately, however, the F-15 has been deployed to more units.

The USA also employs a MAD defense in the form of ICBM's and submarines. It is the most extensive such in the world, having more than 26,000 nuclear warheads in active service.

Foreign relations are tense at best, although the isolationist policies of USA has lightened the tensions greatly. Mostly, they consist of trade, some exchange of students (very limited) and the odd military port. In any case, all US troops are confined to bases.

[Count Dearborn]

I think something along the lines of the Third Reich, but with the Cross.

It would be a something like a combination of these three movies:

1) Rising Storm
2) Escape from LA
3) Daybreak

[Vault-Scope]

Universities are restricted to the very rich or priveledged, for fear that they could become a breeding ground for 'liberal poison'.

Against liberalism? Shouldn´t it be restricted against the very rich and priviledged, in that case? :D

[BaltoJen]

If it were led by the Klan, then internal US politics would be very, very volatile. First off, you'd have ethnic and religious persecutions (any and every minority group (hispanic, african-americans, native americans, mixed races), as well as any religous group that don't line up with their denomination - i.e., Anglicans, Methodists, Lutherans, Orthodox, Catholics, and other groups). These groups might even be made into slaves. These groups may even try to revolt every few years. America (or North America for that matter) would also be very isolationist (maybe only trading with Europe - no trade with Japan, China, India, South America, etc.). I think they'd be more political fundies, and concentrate on military. They would probably be the most evil, given their nature. This would have the largest military (their motto would be akin to "might makes right")

Now, true (evangelical, probably) fundamentalism wouldn't neccesarily be "evil" (maybe to liberals), but their focus would be on agriculture and small communities. The domestic arena would be much more stable than the above. Life may resemble the 1500s in the sense of ethics and morals (which may not be a bad thing, actually... ) - unless they're more strict and follow the Bible to the letter (of which some denominations take things VERY literally). Diplomatic relations with other countries would probably be the most tense (think "loose nukes") of the three types of fundie groups in this post.

Then there's fundamentalism by militia groups (i.e., the ones in the 90s). These would be extremely small community-oriented, with education being done within the family household. Families would virtually live off the land. You may have several larger cities that function as "soldier factories" (where children who grow up in these cities are automatically sent to the military). However, in this group, the military size may actually be quite small, as each family is their own "personal army". Politically, North America would act as one large fuedal state, if not more like autonomous chiefdoms. State (federal) level government would be nearly non-existant, save for maybe a defense force (they'd have control of the nukes, serve as coast guards -- essentially a paramilitary force).


(BTW, What's the PSIA factbook?)

[admkenshin]

Against liberalism? Shouldn´t it be restricted against the very rich and priviledged, in that case? :D

Theocracies don't work by logic ^_^.

Besides, the rich and privileged would probably not stir up a storm, no matter how liberal they become, because they lead a perfectly good life already, and they have a nice good theological explanation of why it should be like that.

[admkenshin]

(BTW, What's the PSIA factbook?)

In my post, I went with the first one.

PSIA is the Public Security Intelligence Agency. They're kinda the CIA of Japan, except they conduct information gathering mostly, and no 'secret war' that the CIA has sometimes been involved in.

In this world, Japan cannot rely on America, so they would probably need a larger intelligence agency. Since they're in between two potentially hostile nations, both great powers, and also considering the size of Japan's economy, it would probably be amongst the largest in the western world. Thus, they're the perfect candidate to publish what in OTL is known as the CIA World Factbook :).

[Berra]

I tend to see every dystopia as Orwellesq, at least when it comes to the empirical world. I'm not sure about the ideology of oppression. I forsee a lack of consumer goods, some centralised propaganda system, some events to get mass hysteria, attempts to rewrite all kinds of information, be it schoolbooks or pop culture.

I'm not so sure how the oppressive system will work, but I dubt it would be as elaborate and still centrally controlled as in 1984. I rather think about it as some sort of local oppressors: men with pitch forks, local militia, Red Guard or local police force. Or a central group, more bumbling but also more in tune with the leadership and a central ideology.

[black angel]

Religion:
Evangelical Christianity is the state religion. People who are members of Baptist, Pentecostal or other Evangelical Church's are the only people with hope of promotion and advancement. Members of less Fundamentalist Churches(such as, Lutheran, Anglican, and Methodist) face heavy discrimination and are regularly harassed. Catholics (and Eastern Orthodox) are bared from owning land, running for office, going to school, going to their Churches, living outside a Catholic Ghetto. some Christian Churches are banned and their members are hunted the forces of the DRP (Department of Religious Purity). if captured the Laypeople of these churches can expect a life time of hard labor in "faith camps". the Ministers of these churches will likely be tortured to death. The former state of Utah is the location of most of these "faith camps". The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was destroyed in the Great Mormon War, in the War the state Utah was decimated and made mostly unlivable, 95% of the people living in Utah were killed in the war. Those Mormons that lived outside Utah were made slaves. the handful of Jews left alive in a reserve in the bad lands of Utah, where disease and starvation are rampant. all other religions are banned and there practitioners are under a "shot on sight" protocol by the DRP.

[Fellatio Nelson]

Whilst the isolationist USA, having expelled the UN from its shores along with removal of its forces from Europe and Japan (at the behest of their hosts) heads for economic meltdown and paradise, many of its best and brightest leave for the EU and SE Asia. As a result of international uncertainty about the regime money floods away from the USA; the dearth of scientific development, the constant baling out of loss-making heavy industries and unsold agricultural surplus only adds to their woes, so the dollar is accepted only with great reluctance as hard currency.

The USA is the butt of numerous topical satirical programmes in the largely secular and increasingly distant EU and the Russian Federation, both of whom have forged mutually beneficial trade agreements and find themselves aligned more and more often on international issues, often against US global interests, alongside closer ties to China and S America nations to provide for the bulk of their basic foodstuffs.

Whilst no one envisages conflict between these nations and the USA, traditional Intelligence pooling with the UK, Canada and Australia has ended and the Anglo-French owned EU nuclear deterrent is entirely free from any US involvement whatsoever.

People were cheered up worldwide, however, upon hearing that Michael Myers was stoned live on television (and not in a good way) for being a godless Canuck. Oh, behave!

[Vault-Scope]

Theocracies don't work by logic ^_^.

...and they have a nice good theological explanation of why it should be like that.


Theoracies can also be logic worked out of religion...

Not much difference from IOTL, then? :D