Nazi ISOT

[Nelliebunky]

Let's give the bad guys a chance for once........What if The Germany Reich on August 30, 1939, right before the invasion of Poland was sent back to August of 1914. Remember the Reich at this time was present day Germany, Austria, Slovika and the Czech Republic. Would Hitler move on France and/or Russia, and if yes could the rest of the world done anything to stop him, the USA included?

[Bulgaroktonos]

Nobody could stop him. He would destroy everybody. The USA would stand no chance.

[NHBL]

It would be a little while before Hitler could invade the USA, but all Europe is his. Even England..those clumsy Stukas are deadly without fighter opposition. The Royal Navy is so many targets.
Unless he tries to move too fast, he's got the world.

[Straha]

he'd at least get eurasia and africa under his iron heel...

[Thande]

Would Hitler have invaded Russia simply to exterminate the Slavic untermenschen, or would he have supported the Tsar against the Bolsheviks due to his ideological hatred of Bolshevism?

[Max Sinister]

The first, not the latter. He wanted to make a Grater German Reich after all, with its eastern border along the ural mountains.

[DuQuense]

Remember Hitler took France with Check?? Tanks. A lot of the Tanks and Planes used in Russia, were built in France. ITTL Hitler has to stop after each conquest and start rebuilding to bring the conquered areas up to German level. { At least the Arms Areas}. This will slow him down,

There is the internal politics of the conquered areas. Large parts of Poland in 1914 were part of Germany, with German Administrators, and security personal in place, It would be simple to reoccupy this territory, but going past the border puts you in Imperial Russia, No Unhappy Ukraine's, Suffering from Stalins Famine, No resentful Baltic's, just recently occupied by the Commies, No independent Finland smarting from the Winter War.

If he decides to launch a two front war, and heads into France, This is not the Divided Depression France, there are no Blackshirts to setup a Vichy State. In fact he would be facing all of Europe, Including Italy, Greece, Balkans, & Ottomans. The need for Garrison Troops...

The Anglo/Nipponese Treaty has just expired, But there is a little good Will left, and this is not the Militant controlled Japan, It would be more Likely to Join the Allies than Germany.

There is the Question of ?Does, Hitler go Happy and declare on the whole world? If not there are lots of People from other Countries, Heading home with Their Knowledge, Diplomatic, Scientists, Engineers, Students, and just plain Tourists.

There will also be a major Espionage effort by the unAttacked countries to get as much Industrial Information as possible . ? How Long would it take The US or Japan to Rebuilt up to 1939 levels?, Given the Blue Prints of the Equipment, without the past Development experience.?

[Thande]

But they would have the Czech tanks, remember, because they were ISOTed from 1939. No French tanks, but I think the main thing they took from France were support vehicles, APCs et al.

[Amit]

The workhorse gun of the standard wehrmacht soldier was still the kar 98k, which is still in production in 1914, so is the Luger, and the standard german grenade.

The changes would involve, aircraft, uboat pens and tank factories. But still, with the infantry as their workhorse, the Germans would roll over rest of Europe.

[General_Paul]

Now, I do agree that the rest of europe will be screwed over, unles some serious back-engineering can occur. Now, when we tink about it, the americans are suited for this job well, this might just be the catalyst for an early formation of the OSS. Perhaps when england falls, we'll be seeing the last of british naval power sailing for american ports. We all remember that, although the americans were half an ocean away, we still had the largest battleship force on earth. I see problems for the wermacht's plans for invasion. By the mid 20's, hitler will be building up for an invasion of either the USA, or a drive into british India. If its the USA, and back engineering occured, we'll have a battle of man power, and of industrial power.

[Yossarian]

What would happen to the 1914 german colonies? Would the become independant, join with germany, or be annexed by the allies?

The main obstacles to world domination by Germany would be troop numbers and the ocean. There simply wouldn't be close to enough troops in all Germany to occupy all of Eurasia, much less the rest of the world. The oceans would also be difficult, because the allies would have the naval power of the entire world behind them, so it would take Hitler a long time of furious building to match that, and by that time they'll be a lot more even technologically.

[zoomar]

Europe falls very soon and British govt gives up or flees to Canada by 1916 - lacking any ability whatsoever to protect Britain from aerial assault. Russia falls.

Regarding the long-term effect and rest of the world, I'm not so sure. The Nazis would have no true allies. In spite of technological advances between 1914 and 1939, the US, Japanese,(and exile British?) navies would still dominate the oceans and ASW techniques developed in WW1 would still be effective against 1939 German subs. Germans could not just walk over the Atlantic and Pacific or invade China thru Siberia overnight. Epionage would probably provide the surviving anti-Nazi coalition sufficient information to manufacture communications equipment, aircraft and armored vehicles close enough to the Nazis' stuff within a few years - while on the other hand the Nazis would see little reason to spend effort on a lot of R&D to improve their stuff.

[NHBL]

We all remember that, although the americans were half an ocean away, we still had the largest battleship force on earth.

In 1914, America had the third largest dreadnought force in the world--after Britain and Germany.
Even so, the battleships are almost useless without adequate ASW escort--and there ARE no adequate ASW escorts. If they sortie to stop an invasion, they're toast.
In addition, I'm sure that simple floatplanes off German cruisers could carry torpedoes.
Other floatplanes could shoot down the best anyone has to offer with ease.

Although Germany could not easily invade the USA, it could easily clear the USN fom the picture. If the USN hides, simply send some troopships towards the USA--even empty, they will have to assume they are loaded.
In short, even the most powerful nation in the world is helpless if the Germans attack quickly.

[Elidor]

I don't think Hitler will mess with England, but will try to scare the English to give Germany a free hand. Stukas roaring above London with blaring Jericho Trumpets and dropping propaganda would be more like it. Russia is done for, and Hitler will most likely try to gather an invasion fleet with aircraft carrier and pour all resources of Eurasia into rockets and such.

[Vault-Scope]

France is beaten quickly, of course.
Then bombers forces England into a serie of treaties with Germany rather than face German invasion. AH is dismantled(croatia, Slovenia, Slovakia etc), new governements are out in power all across europe. Russian empire gives upp large parts of it´s european territories, but takes new territories from China with Japanes help.
Many colonies are handed other and The Empire becomes a true colonial power.
The Empire dominates economically all of europe very rapidly, with new technolgies(like widspread use of radio).
The USA enters war in the early 20s, but is rapidly beaten off.
German-British navy cutes them off from South America and the Caraibians, then a mushroom cloud rises over New York.
The USA is forces into accepting treaties, reduce it´s army and face German inspections, Nuremberg-type laws etc.
German fleet become the most powerfull fleet across the oceans by 1925, an arsenal of intercontinental rockets transporting H-bombes is developped.

Then, in the early 30s, satellites are put into orbite. The 3rd Empire reachs the moon and start building cities there...

In the early 40s, england, France and North America have built in secret weapons of mass destruction and massively use them against Germany. By 1945, Germany is in ruines but manage to strike back, economical collapse by the destruction of German industries does the rest.
Military takes power in the dark years following the war, the SS makes their own states in the east and a wermarcht-NSDAP civil war starts in Germany itself.

[Elidor]

In the early 40s, england, France and North America have built in secret weapons of mass destruction and massively use them against Germany. By 1945, Germany is in ruines but manage to strike back, economical collapse by the destruction of German industries does the rest.

every other Nazi TL somehow has to end with the nuking of Germany.

[juanml82]

In OTL espionage didn't help anyone to get and produce their enemy's technologies. Only reverse engineering captured equipment did, so I'm not really sure that any country can spy on isoted Germany to get their 1939 tech. Also, isoted Germany is the only country in 1914 with chemical weapons :eek:!
France would fall easly within a month. The RN has no AA weaponry or training, as there was no need for such a thing in 1914: there just easy targets for the Luftwaffe. And furthermore, as aircraft are barely experimental recon vehicles, who on earth would think that you can drop soldiers from the air! After the conquest of France, Germany assembles cargo ships in the French coast, a chemical bombardment to any port on the Channel coast (Dover would be too predictable for the British) followed by an airborne assault... and with the RN absent due air attacks... we're suddenly calling that treacherous sea mamal! :eek::eek: And in the meantime, the tzar might not know that he's next (at least for sure). The Germans might make some sort of allliance like in OTL so they can stab Russia in the back.
But then it begins to turn difficult. The rest of the world will unit against Germany. No country will have tanks to counter German ones and neither fighter's orf bombers. But we'll see for sure AAA, some kind for AT guns, chemical warfare (and protective suits). Navys will equip their ships with AAA. And Germany might not be able to finish the conquest of Britain (if the UK doesn't surrender instead) before winter 1914-15, so any invasion of Russia will have to wait until spring 1916. In the meantime Germany might want to seize the Middle East, so they can also attack Russia from the south and neglect the Caucasus' oil fields to the Russian army (That's not an advantage as great as it could have been in OTL, as 1914 Russian Army is far less mechanized and Russia is far less industrialized, right??). But the entire world would be supporting Russia, witch still has millions of people, no holomodor to decimate Ucranins and no purges. Given rudimentary AA and At guns, plus the combined industrial might of the USA, Japan, Italy, Canada, Australia and whatever Russia had at that time... could Russia stand until winter? And would the Germans be prepared for that? I don't think so. And if engines and other pieces of German war machines are captured with little damage in the battles... then they can be reverse engineered. Maybe Germany gets some sort of stalemate, gets chunks of Russia, but can't push further? What happens with neutral countries in Europe then? They should fall one after the other. And then Germany would be completly isolated

[Vault-Scope]

every other Nazi TL somehow has to end with the nuking of Germany.

But in this case, because of albion & New York regime(after Washington was nuked) regime ruthless treachery, deceite and willigness to do anything for power.
Not because they are meant to be any better than the Germans in this story, even nastier in fact... :o :D

[Syphon]

Now, I do agree that the rest of europe will be screwed over, unles some serious back-engineering can occur. Now, when we tink about it, the americans are suited for this job well, this might just be the catalyst for an early formation of the OSS. Perhaps when england falls, we'll be seeing the last of british naval power sailing for american ports. We all remember that, although the americans were half an ocean away, we still had the largest battleship force on earth. I see problems for the wermacht's plans for invasion. By the mid 20's, hitler will be building up for an invasion of either the USA, or a drive into british India. If its the USA, and back engineering occured, we'll have a battle of man power, and of industrial power.

Hate to burst your bubble here but in 1914 the USN was third or forth on the dreadnought list.

Not that it would matter much the German u-boats of 1939 would sweep them from the oceans.

Ans as this is the Nazis we're talking about the U-boat research would continue.

the big question is whether the Type XXI would be developed as there would be no pressing need.

Another thought as Germany won't be bombed flat any time soon then they'd probably have the transistor by the mid 1920's as the bloke developing it wouldn't have to keep moving research facilities every few months.
In OTL the yanks only beat him by a few months so what might happen here.