Two Americas, Red and Blue

[Bopater]

John Edwards once said there are two Americas. What if, In 2004, all Republicans and right leaning moderates and their property were moved West of the Mississippi(They get Alaska, Guam and Midway) and Democrats and left leaning moderates were moved East of the Mississippi(They get Hawaii, Puerto Rico and everthing else) with all of their property.

Both sides declare independence and have to rebuild their Governments from scratch(EI Military, Social Security, Medicare and the like) though they both start out with the old constitution and system of government.

The International community declares that the American debt is two equally divided .


Who would be more prosperous? More powerful?

[NomadicSky]

How are the new states formed after this? Maybe you could post a map.

[Bopater]

I guess that states would be the same(The Mississippi rarely goes through any states, it marks alot of borders though).

[NomadicSky]

I guess that states would be the same(The Mississippi rarely goes through any states, it marks alot of borders though).

Well Louisiana would be split as would Minnesota I think those are the only two.

My guess is that Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, Tennessee are going to be mostly moved west the population would I guess fit in California.

[benjamin]

Well all of the Libertarians from the western zone will quickly emigrate to American Samoa and various Pacific Islands, while the ones in the Eastern zone soon occupy the American Virgin Islands. Being libertarians, their policies of low taxes, increased freedom of choice and open economic system ensure that their per-capita measures of both wealth and happiness surpass both regions.

Benjamin

[Finn]

Well all of the Libertarians from the western zone will quickly emigrate to American Samoa and various Pacific Islands, while the ones in the Eastern zone soon occupy the American Virgin Islands. Being libertarians, their policies of low taxes, increased freedom of choice and open economic system ensure that their per-capita measures of both wealth and happiness surpass both regions.

Benjamin

Or those islands become repressive corporate states.

[benjamin]

Finn "Or those islands become repressive corporate states."

Only if some dill-weed who has no understanding of libertarianism strong arms his way into power. Why is it that the majority of the people today get their political info from bad cyberpunk RPGs or heavily biased Cable News talking heads? FYI... libertarians are against corporate welfare / special privileges as much as they are against government pork and socialism.

Benjamin

[Mr. Evangelical]

What happens to Populists like my family?


Also Finn, I seem to notice how you shun everything except Far-Leftism. I agree Libertarianism is bad, but please at least be nicer about it.

[Finn]

What happens to Populists like my family?


Also Finn, I seem to notice how you shun everything except Far-Leftism. I agree Libertarianism is bad, but please at least be nicer about it.

That is what I think would happen to small Libertarian communities with shaky access to resources. I probably should have worded it to be less confrontational, and I apologise.

[Nietzsche]

What happens to Populists like my family?


Also Finn, I seem to notice how you shun everything except Far-Leftism. I agree Libertarianism is bad, but please at least be nicer about it.


You're not a populist. You're a Evangelical Republican. You'd be in 'Red America'.

[Mr. Evangelical]

You're not a populist. You're a Evangelical Republican. You'd be in 'Red America'.


I am Socially Conservative, but Fiscally Liberal. My parents aren't as Evangelical as me, but due to me needing them to take care of me, they come to Red America. They Pretty much lean to The Right, not as much as me though.

[Constantius]

I am Socially Conservative, but Fiscally Liberal. My parents aren't as Evangelical as me, but due to me needing them to take care of me, they come to Red America. They Pretty much lean to The Right, not as much as me though.

Sounds like you belong in the welfare state.

[Cue laughtrack now.]

[Hawkeye]

Ah crap, looks like I have at lease a six hour drive ahead of me.

[Mr. Evangelical]

Sounds like you belong in the welfare state.

[Cue laughtrack now.]

I said that because I am 14, I can't raise myself at this age.

[Finn]

Looks like it is back to Upper Michigan for me.

[Chuck Mandus]

I am Socially Conservative, but Fiscally Liberal. My parents aren't as Evangelical as me, but due to me needing them to take care of me, they come to Red America. They Pretty much lean to The Right, not as much as me though.

Yeah, I wonder that myself, although I think we would lean Red. Meaning "we," I guess I consider myself politically the same or close to the same as you, I see myself as morally, militarily and socially conservative but fiscally moderate, slightly liberal So I'm a "Red Stater" mostly, but economically, I'm kind of purple. It's like I'm "Mr. NRA" yet I do see the need for a universal healthcare system or at least some system to catch the uninsured while running in competition with private plans much like Israel does it. I guess with the limited choices, I think overall, we'd be 75% conservative, we'd be put with the Red States. Politics is kind of muddy, I think as the Libertarians pointed out, the Red vs Blue is a bit simplistic along with the one dimensional scale. I at least see politics on a two dimensional graph, one axis social, the other economic. I know if we were European, we'd be called "Christian Democrats," our fellow politicians would be the likes of Helmut Kohl, Angela Merkel, Berscoloni (sp) of Italy, and perhaps General DeGaulle.

I think if the ASB's had political splits, you might see a situation like in Sid Meir's "Alpha Centauri," except with more factions where you could see coalitions worked out between various factions that do have many things in common although they might have some differences. America would be a mosiac

[admkenshin]

Wait a minute here. Is being in favor of universal health care, and other social security projects, conservative? US politics is some weird shit alright :rolleyes:

[benjamin]

Not to make this a big poltical argument, but most American's have political views that are far too diverse to be unilateraly declared RED or BLUE. The media, and its infatuation with easy pre-packaged soundbite labels, has given many Americans and foreigners are very narrow and incorrect view of American political thought.

As for myself I am a libertarian. Historically this has meant that I believe the old adage of "The government that governs least, governs best." Today though many believe this means I would support some derranged corpacracy (government by corporations) when that is totally untrue. Do I think that many services now provided by governments would be better served by competing corporations...yes. Do I believe that nationalization of social services (such as health care and utilities) lead to waste and inefficiancy...yes. But on the social side I would be considered extremely liberal. Consider me the opposite of Mr. Evangical.

@Finn - My first comment was intented to be snarky and humorous. I just get a little irritated when people who seem to have little understanding of what libertarianism is automatically assume that I advocate corporate government. Big corporations can be just as inefficiant as big government (for example America's "Big Three" Auto manufacturers).

Benjamin

[Chuck Mandus]

Wait a minute here. Is being in favor of universal health care, and other social security projects, conservative? US politics is some weird shit alright :rolleyes:

I know there is more to politics than just left vs. right, I just imagine it more of a two dimensional graph than the historical one dimensional line. I probably would fit well into the Christian Democratic parties of Germany or Italy, perhaps close to Mike Huckabee here in the U.S. In the past, I would most likely be a William B. Jennings or Teddy Roosevelt supporter or later, FDR. When things got as far as LBJ, I fall off, I think LBJ did too much to add to the welfare state. My views is that there should be a safety net, perhaps some sort of healthcare for those who fall into the cracks at least, and if one is able bodied, then they should do some work, even part-time for their welfare. Overall on the old one dimensional system, I would be more conservative than liberal, but I do have my differences.

[Firestorm]

I know there is more to politics than just left vs. right, I just imagine it more of a two dimensional graph than the historical one dimensional line. I probably would fit well into the Christian Democratic parties of Germany or Italy, perhaps close to Mike Huckabee here in the U.S. In the past, I would most likely be a William B. Jennings or Teddy Roosevelt supporter or later, FDR. When things got as far as LBJ, I fall off, I think LBJ did too much to add to the welfare state. My views is that there should be a safety net, perhaps some sort of healthcare for those who fall into the cracks at least, and if one is able bodied, then they should do some work, even part-time for their welfare. Overall on the old one dimensional system, I would be more conservative than liberal, but I do have my differences.
Hmm, I don't think I fit in with any movement past the antifederalists. Might of made a good transcendentalist.