Go Back   Alternate History Discussion Board > Discussion > Alternate History Discussion: After 1900

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old July 20th, 2008, 11:40 PM
Hannibal.Caesar Hannibal.Caesar is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 766
Superpower Australia

I am not sure whether or not this should be posted in the pre-1900 forum, but I'm posting it here since most of the WIs I'm interested in involve the 20th century. I'm definitely open to hearing that this is the wrong place for it, or if there's way too many butterflies for this to happen.

Anyway, what would the situation look like in the south Pacific at the dawn of WWII if the English, instead of the Dutch, controlled what is now known as Indonesia? IMO I could see the Australians in control of the islands under a British mandate, much like the early situation South Africa and South West Africa.

What would the Japanese response to this situation be like? Barring any history-devolving butterflies, would this change the course of WWII much?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by chris N View Post
Let me State that China is in the process of constructing AIRCRAFT CARRIERS!.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxagoras View Post
Run for your lives!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old July 21st, 2008, 07:03 AM
Riain Riain is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1000 or more
Australia controlled German New Guinea mostly, as a mandate, between WW1 and 1975 and it didn't do us much good in WW2. Nor did the Dutch controlling the East Indies, the French in Indochina or British in Malaya and Borneo. But if I understand your intention correctly, you'd like the Japanese advance contested less by absentee landlords and more by powerful-ish locals, ie Australia?

There are plenty of scenarios which see Australia more populous and developed, and therefore much more powerful, by 1940. There was a very detailed one a while ago which had Ausrtalia undertaking the post WW2 immigrastion and industrialisation in 1919 rather than 1946. I think it went too far, but an Australia with 12-15 million in 1940, and some serious industrial development over 20 year could really put up a fight against the Japanese in 1942, although I don't know that the Japanese would do to counter this. My favorite is to have Australia settled from 1650 in the wake of slightly better Dutch exploration. An extra century of settlement would make a huge difference in 1940, in this secnario the Japanese would do nothing because it would be the established order of things for them.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old July 21st, 2008, 07:30 AM
Ferdinand Koenig Ferdinand Koenig is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Jose, Northern California
Posts: 203
The Japanese would still have intended to include Australia within the Greater East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere, even if it had been settled by the Dutch in the 1600s. A richer, more powerful Australia would have given the Japanese further impetus to push south, not less. They bombed Darwin IOTL. If the Japanese hadn't been stopped at New Guinea and Guadalcanal, invading Australia was definitely on the menu.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old July 21st, 2008, 08:41 AM
Riain Riain is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1000 or more
No it wasn't, the IJArmy rejected it when the IJNavy proposed it, saying that it would be too hard. Making Australia more powerful would only make it harder, and perhaps even prevent the IJN suggesting it in the first place.

A more developed Australia would have greater infrastructure, like a rail link to Darwin, which enable Australia to use Darwin as a base for offensive action.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old July 21st, 2008, 10:42 AM
Joseph Solis in Australia Joseph Solis in Australia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kingdom of Australia
Posts: 1000 or more
Send a message via Yahoo to Joseph Solis in Australia
My favorite Superpower Australia scenario is:


In 1630, Dutch explorers from Batavia in Indonesia reached the coast of Darwin Australia. Ten years later, Dutch government decides to colonise Australia and first batch of Dutch settlers from Batavia in Indonesia have arrived in Darwin. Then, the Dutch explore the continent of Australia for almost hundred years until they reach the South east Australia (comprises the present day of Sydney and Melbourne) and by 1680, Dutch have reached Tasmania and decides to colonise it. During the colonisation of Dutch in Australia for 200 years, Dutch population increased extraordinarily and by 1850, almost all people in Australian continent are Dutch with few remaining Aborigines. The population of Dutch Australia in 1940 is 15 million. Much rapid industrialisation in Australia starting 1850. Much better standard of living in Australia than in OTL with GDP per capita of $50,000 (exchange rate basis). Australia is a military superpower in Asia-Pacific. In 1942, Australians repulsed the Japanese at the Coral Sea.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Margaret Thatcher View Post
There can be no liberty without economic liberty
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old July 21st, 2008, 10:58 AM
Weaver Weaver is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New South Wales, Australia
Posts: 375
Nah, the Brits would have taken it from the Dutch at the same time as the Cape Colony, during the Napoleonic War in 1806 for the second and final time.

The Dutch problem was being occupied by the French, making all their colonies fair game for the Brits. I'll never understand how they were permitted to keep the Dutch East Indies.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old July 21st, 2008, 11:47 AM
Letum Letum is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 75
This is all, of course, assuming that the British controlling the only major dutch colony, and one with significant natural resources, has absolutely no impact on the colonial development of other, less attractive areas (including Australia), no effect on their financial might and thus on the wars of the latter few centuries, will not cause the British to see south-east Asia as a strategically important holding, will still allow Japan to modernize with little foreign influence, gain significant overseas islands and possessions in China and be swept up by a rabidly nationalist and expansionist movement, will still lead to a Sino-Japanese war in 37, will still lead to an oil embargo, and still result in a Japanese march to the south in 41.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old July 21st, 2008, 12:29 PM
Nugax Nugax is offline
talks in diagrams
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London's sludgy aorta
Posts: 1000 or more
Quote:
Originally Posted by Weaver View Post
The Dutch problem was being occupied by the French, making all their colonies fair game for the Brits. I'll never understand how they were permitted to keep the Dutch East Indies.
They were required to open the DEI to british business to a large extent, and were pretty much dependent on British naval supremacy to underwrite their policies. Thus Britain got money and commercial access without the trouble and expense of having to actually run things (see Argentina ).
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.