WI: The Prophet Behāfarīd succeeds in the 8th century AD?

[Basileus Giorgios]

Behāfarīd was an enigmatic holy man active in Iran in the last years of Umayyad rule. He preached a creed that, from our surviving sources, seems to have aimed at reinvigorating Zoroastrianism by bringing in quite a few Islamic elements into the faith. His message was initially quite successful, especially amongst the lower classes, but he was eventually defeated by an alliance of "pure" Muslims and Zoroastrians, disturbed by his hybrid creed.

What if Behāfarīd was able to achieve as much success as Muhammad before him?

[LSCatilina]

As much succeed than Muhammad seems hard. After all, Muhammad and earlier Caliphes worked on a society where tribals links were strong and allowed a fast widespread of Islam.

Behafarid, on the other hand, worked on a peasant base when the society was already more based on territorial nobility. It could allow him to be sucessful into creating a crypto-zoroastrian territory based on the Zagros, but that's not going to last against both fervous religious (Muslims or Zoroastrians) and critically against the upper classes that wouldn't be really happy about a sucessful peasant's movement.

Admittedly, it could lead to an even quicker integration of persian nobility into the arabo-islamic one (as, in Spain, the revolts during the 9th century did for muldai).

[Kaiphranos]

Hmm. Given that he attracted the ire of both Muslim and Zoroastrian authorities, this seems like a tough one. Were there other, more successful fusion movements in this region and approximate era, and if so, how did they pull it off?

[Beedok]

Maybe a better target would be a success level similar to Sikhism?

[LSCatilina]

Originally Posted by Beedok

Maybe a better target would be a success level similar to Sikhism?

Sikhism benefited A LOT of the geopolitical context, with invasion from Afghanistan and with political fragmentation in North India.

[Basileus Giorgios]

Originally Posted by LSCatilina

Sikhism benefited A LOT of the geopolitical context, with invasion from Afghanistan and with political fragmentation in North India.

True, so why can't Behafarid succeed at a time when the Umayyads are collapsing, but the Abbasid ascent isn't quite yet secured?

[eliphas8]

Being as successful as mohammed is probably ASB, but Persia being converted could work.

Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios

True, so why can't Behafarid succeed at a time when the Umayyads are collapsing, but the Abbasid ascent isn't quite yet secured?

The major stumbling block is probably that he couldnt get the Nobility on his side, if he could get traditional Zoroastrian authorities to support him then he could succeed.

[LSCatilina]

Originally Posted by Basileus Giorgios

True, so why can't Behafarid succeed at a time when the Umayyads are collapsing, but the Abbasid ascent isn't quite yet secured?

As said, mainly because of its social base : as a peasant movment, it's certain to unite all upper classes against it.

As it was fought against by both Zoroastrian and Muslims, the religious leaders would help a repression if it get more sucessful, making the movment having less possibilities to extant.

Even branch of Islam as kharidjism had to refugee themselves far from Caliphal center of power to survive. But Persia was certainly too important and too close for being ignored or considered as secondary by Ummayyads (they actually focused on it much than any place, explaining why western provinces tended to act autonomous).

Having a way to make their prestige higher while being useful for islamo-iranian nobles would prevent them to say "whatever".

For the Abbassids, they actually managed to make a sucessful coup against the Umayyads because of the relative social stability that existed in Persia/Mesopotamia. They would more likely search to preserve it first.

[LSCatilina]

Originally Posted by eliphas8

The major stumbling block is probably that he couldnt get the Nobility on his side, if he could get traditional Zoroastrian authorities to support him then he could succeed.

I doubt it would be enough. The persian upper classes islamized themselves quite quickly (even by keeping and influencing Arabs in a large way) and the actual zoroastrian elites weren't really influent or powerful.

If you meant the religious authorities...I doubt even more it would make a significant difference : politically they lost any power except on some population and only under the Islamic "political" protection.

Now, don't get me wrong. It can be more sucessful, and take over the Zagros aera for a time. But being AS sucessful as Islam is beyond what is humanly possible.

[eliphas8]

Originally Posted by LSCatilina

.

Now, don't get me wrong. It can be more sucessful, and take over the Zagros aera for a time. But being AS sucessful as Islam is beyond what is humanly possible.

I don't disagree, I think it's utterly I unfeasible to get it to that point my point is that it's not impossi for it to do similar to what you are saying.

[PhilippeO]

The key for successful rebellion is Abu Muslim, if any prophet managed to convert him, they will have a chance to success. the problem is his loyalty, he crush Behafarid rebellion, and his friend Sunpadh only rebel after he is death.