WI:The Fender Stratocaster was a flop?

[tallthinkev]

Fender had already had alot of sucess with the Telecaster, but what if the Strat was a flop? Leo Fender designed and built the Strat in 1954 and George Fullerton was 'the sales man'. The guitar was made for guitarist like Bill Carson who played Western Swing and other country style players.
If they had not liked it or Fullerton had not pushed it enough how would music of today be different?
The Strat was not a big mover at the start of Rock and Roll most players, like Scotty Moore and Chuch Berry played Gibson's and others like Eddie Cochran played a Gretsch. The first star to be pictured with one was Buddy Holly, the cover of The "Chirping" Crickets. This lead to Hank Marvin wanting one and The Beatles 'wanted' to be The Shadows, think you know where I'm going with this, so.
The most well known player was Hendrix, and how much better the world be if you didn't see local bands playing, sometimes very bad versions, of Little Wing and All Along the Watchtower?
With no super Strats like those made by Ibanez and Jackson, no speed or death metal let alone thrash.
I must say, though, I do own 5 Fender guitars and not one is a Stratocaster.
Over to you!

[Kalvan]

If the Stratocaster had bombed, it would have simply meant that the Gibson SG, Firebird, and Flying V would have gone mainstream sooner.

And if Hendrix absulutely had to have a Fender, he could have chosen from among the Mustang, Jaguar, Jazmaster (with different pickups), or Bluesman. He could even have approached Fender directly to create a signature guitar, to be imitated by everyone and his brother by the likes of Kramer, Ibanez, ESP, Dean, etc. Who knows, in place of the Superstrat, we could have had a big Jagstang craze two to three decades early!

[ejr1963]

Longtime lurker here - but also a longtime guitar player (33 years, with a fair amount of that time spent playing lead guitar in bands). I'm not a Strat fan (the last time I owned a Strat was back in the 80s, when I was in college), but I know a fair amount about them.

Many people don't realize that Hendrix possibly saved the Strat. By 1967, Fender was seriously considering discontinuing the Stratocaster, due to falling sales (the Les Paul was discontinued in 1961, for that reason). Why? By 1967, it wasn't a hip guitar guitar (by 1967, it was considered to be a guitar that only surf music bands used - surf music was out of vogue by the late 60s), and had only had moderate popularity at the time - there were players that played them (such as Pete Townshend on occasion, and Rory Gallagher, who wasn't very well known in the US at the time), but it wasn't their main guitar (being the main guitar squeeze of Eric Clapton, Peter Green, and Mike Bloomfield [all of whom were very popular with guitar players], is what bought the Les Paul back from extinction). It also didn't help that Fender pushed its Jazzmaster and Jaguars as being THE GUITARS to have.

Once Hendrix was seen as a cool player (and as is typical for players, they scoped out his gear - and noticed he was playing a "a surf guitar! "), guitar players being what they are, wanted to used the same kind of gear Hendrix used (which also included Marshall amps [which were almmost unknown outside of the UK until Hendrix came along], and Fuzz Face distortion pedals), to get his cool tones. So they started buying Strats. Sales were also helped when famous players like Jeff Beck (who had hardly ever played a Strat when he was in the Yardbirds), and Robin Trower (who had played an SG on Procol Harum's first album - which contained the hit "Whiter Shade of Pale"), started playing them. From then on, Stratocasters (or as most players call them, Strats), became the popular guitar they are to this day.

F.Y.I. - Hendrix did play other guitars a fair amount. Before he died, he seemed to be gravitating towards Flying Vs.

As for the super Strat - either another guitar would have taken the place of the Super Strat (maybe a Les Paul or SG with a Floyd Rose vibrato [they have been done, but are not that popular, due to both of those guitars not being thought of as shredder guitars]), or you wouldn't have the market for a "super" guitar, due guitars already meeting the needs of players. Basically the who Super Strat (I used to play one years ago) concept grew out of two needs/desires, when playing a guitar with the Strat's body shape:

1. More sonic beef soundwise - players wanted the thicker tones that humbucker equipped guitars have. For many years, Strats only came equipped with single coil pickups, not the dual coil humbuckers, that many players wanted. So, you either had to modify your Strat by adding humbuckers to it, make a Strat-style guitar with humbucker in it (like Van Halen originally did), or (as has been the case since the mid 80s) buy a Strat-style guitar, that has humbuckers in it. Take away the need for humbuckers, and the desire for a guitar with the Strat body style (assuming Hendrix doesn't become popular, and Fender proceeds with discontinuing the Strat), and this need/desire disappears.

2. Keeping a guitar in tune after heavy vibrato/whammy bar use - many shredders use lots of vibrato bar. This has a tendency to throw guitars out of tune. When the Floyd Rose vibrato came out, it pretty much eliminated "going out of tune" problems. Since shredders mostly play super-Strats, a Floyd Rose became a required piece of hardware on super-Strats. Assuming the Strat up and dies as a model for Fender, it's still possible that the shredder guitar of choice would have a Floyd Rose, or other type of advanced vibrato.

With some thoughts for the thread,
Ellen (yes, chicks REALLY do play guitar! )

[ejr1963]

Originally Posted by Kalvan

If the Stratocaster had bombed, it would have simply meant that the Gibson SG, Firebird, and Flying V would have gone mainstream sooner.

And if Hendrix absulutely had to have a Fender, he could have chosen from among the Mustang, Jaguar, Jazmaster (with different pickups), or Bluesman. He could even have approached Fender directly to create a signature guitar, to be imitated by everyone and his brother by the likes of Kramer, Ibanez, ESP, Dean, etc. Who knows, in place of the Superstrat, we could have had a big Jagstang craze two to three decades early!

The SG already was a popular guitar for Gibson. Many bands played SGs during the 60s. And yes, it's possible that the Firebird, and the Flying V, would have become popular before the early 70s.

I don't know if Jimi played 'Stangs, but I do know that he played Jazzmasters when he played in Little Richard's band (there's a photo of him on the web playing one), and he also occasionally dabbled with Jaguars.

As for the Jagstang - that would be a trip. That is one guitar that you either love or hate!

Ellen

[tallthinkev]

I thought Kurt Cobain 'invented' the Jagstang when smashed up a Jaguar and a Mustang and guled the to parts together. Or Fender could have stuck with the Telecaster with an updated Bigsby.

[Peabody-Martini]

So Fender discontinues the strat sometime in the late sixties, so what. Key change, no three bolt CBS era strats. In the long run Fender wins on that deal.

Later on Hendrix, Clapton, Beck and a host of others start turning up with pre-CBS Strats. Either Fender reissues the Strat, much like Gibson did when they brought back the Les Paul or someone else will. Leo Fender himself would start Music Man and G & L. Grover Jackson and David Schecter are out there as well.

[Dan Reilly The Great]

I think a bigger question is what if the P-bass never takes off? If not enough guitarists decide to get extra work playing bass(as was the intended reason for making the P-bass), and not enough upright players don't like the idea of playing a "guitar" in stead of a proper bass, there is a good chance that the instrument doesn't make it.

I could see the music industry going drastically different without electric bass guitars.

[ejr1963]

Originally Posted by tallthinkev

I thought Kurt Cobain 'invented' the Jagstang when smashed up a Jaguar and a Mustang and guled the to parts together. Or Fender could have stuck with the Telecaster with an updated Bigsby.

Nope. Kurt mainly played Mustangs, Jaguars, and Stratocasters during his career. And yes, he did smash a lot of guitars. The Jagstang came around, when Fender wanted to do an endorsement deal with Kurt. He told them that he didn't know what guitar he would endorse, because while he liked Strats, Jaguars, and Mustangs, he wasn't completely happy with any of them. Also, he wasn't wild about doing endorsements in general. So, Fender asked Kurt if they could make him a guitar, that he really liked, in order to sweeten the deal. Kurt asked Fender to give him a few days, to think about things, and get back to them with his ideas. What Kurt did was take a photo of a Jaguar, and a photo of a Mustang (his two favorite guitar models), cut 'em up, and paste, kludge together the bits and pieces of both photos, to create a guitar body shape that he liked - a blend of a Jaguar, and a Mustang (hence the name Jagstang), and sent the whole pasted together thing to Fender.

Fender made 2 or 3 prototype Jagstangs, and gave 'em to Kurt to try out while touring, so they could smooth out the design rough spots, finalize things design-wise, and possibly produce the guitar for sale to the general public. That never happened, due to Kurt committing suicide a short time after he received the prototype Jagstangs. Fender decided to cash in on Kurt's death, and in spite of the Jagstang basically being an unfinished "work in progress", released it to the general public for sale. It's never been more than a cult favorite with the guitar playing community. Many players think it's ugly, or at best looks too kluged together (which are my feelings about it). Also, not every player likes the Jagstang's shorter (scale length) than average neck. As a result, Jagstangs were only made for a few years in the 90s, and a couple of years in the 2000s.

[ejr1963]

Originally Posted by Dan Reilly The Great

I think a bigger question is what if the P-bass never takes off? If not enough guitarists decide to get extra work playing bass(as was the intended reason for making the P-bass), and not enough upright players don't like the idea of playing a "guitar" in stead of a proper bass, there is a good chance that the instrument doesn't make it.

I could see the music industry going drastically different without electric bass guitars.

Yup, probably a bit more of a folk direction (since many folk groups don't use any bass register instrumentation).

Or else, you have additional guitarists playing basslines on guitar. One of the tonal switch positions on the early 50s Fender Broadcasters, Nocasters, Telecasters, and Esquires, created a very thick, muffled, and thuddy sound, so guitar players could play "sort of upright bass" sounding lines on those guitars. Maybe you end up with an additional guitar player in the band lineup who also plays rhythmn guitar, but BASS rhythmn guitar.