Prince Henry of Prussia: The Rise of U-Boat.

[BlondieBC]

Originally Posted by Adler17

SMS Württemberg and the Mackensen class BC were not laid down yet. SMS Hindenburg need a year to be launched, as well as SMS Baden. SMS Bayern can be launched in early 1915. As the HSF lost SMS Kaiser it would be nonetheless needed to complete these ships.

Adler

Yes, the are suspending future ships programs. I believe the design work is being done on these ships, and it needs to be redone. Also each ship frees up enough resources for about 20 U-boats, so they chose 120 U-boats over the 6 ships. These two leaders sincerely believe in new technology, and they are following their beliefs. These men have been consistently doing 4+ year build plans for over a decade, and they revert to form.

Originally Posted by MUC

I wonder what the use of aircraft carriers and carrier launched aircraft in 1914 is.

At this point aircraft are only useful for recon duties and to engage/shoot down enemy aircraft or zeppelins. They cannot carry the payload necessary to damage/sink large ships.
The recon duties seem to be covered by the Zepellins and British don't have much of a naval air force in place. So, why build aircraft carriers now?

Six to 10 planes. In OTL, the British have already done an air raid on Zeppelin hangers, and the Japanese are bombing Tsingtao. It is really one technology leads to another. A Zeppelin can see ships at 100 miles distance, so in good weather it is impossible to approach the German Coast or keep ships near Germany. The Zeppelin also spot mine fields being laid down. So the British send out airplanes to shoot down Zeppelin, so the Germans need airplanes to counter the British Airplanes. In OTL, Zeppelins even checked ships according to the cruiser rules. So a Zeppelin is basically an early AWAC plane, and if they stay away from the coast, almost impossible to kill with land based weapons or air planes.

[MerryPrankster]

Aircraft carriers with aircraft equipped for ASW strike me as something the British should look into in the long run.

Also, don't the British have twice as many submarines as the Germans anyway?

It seems like everything with a CP flag on it should be targeted by now.

[NHBL]

Any lighter than air craft is very vulnerable to weather, and so can't be counted on. An aircraft carrier can stash its planes below until the weather clears up--though rough seas can damage or ruin a seaplane.

[BlondieBC]

Originally Posted by MerryPrankster

Aircraft carriers with aircraft equipped for ASW strike me as something the British should look into in the long run.

Also, don't the British have twice as many submarines as the Germans anyway?

It seems like everything with a CP flag on it should be targeted by now.

Originally Posted by NHBL

Any lighter than air craft is very vulnerable to weather, and so can't be counted on. An aircraft carrier can stash its planes below until the weather clears up--though rough seas can damage or ruin a seaplane.

I think the used the Aircraft carriers for ASW very earlier in the war. Almost anything that could be tried in WW1 was tried. But if it did not work, it is not general knowledge. For example, in WW1, over 100 Zeppelins were used for almost everything. There was a thread a few weeks ago about using commandos from a Zeppelin to attack deep behind enemy lines. I researched adding a section where commando attack something high profile deep behind enemy lines. It turns out the Germans repeatedly tried to cut the Russian rail lines going into Poland, but the rail bridges were fortified with troops, machine guns, and artillery drafted into ant-aircraft guns. Presumably, the German GHQ also studied using commando out of Zeppelins but decide a platoon of soldiers had little chance of defeating a fortified bridge. Zeppelin were also used as army recon much like one would send a Mosquito in WW2 for. Since normally only Zeppelins lost are mentioned in passing, it is hard to know what the other 100+ Zeppelins were doing on any given day besides if the weather was good, the watching the Oceans was the #1 priority. The change the Von Schultze made was to add an officer to the Zeppelin to take command of the forces. On most day, all the officer is really doing is relaying information on locations of ships on the surface to sub commanders or light surface commanders to handle. In the case of Zeppelins and Aircraft carriers, the doctrine was more advance than the equipment, and these items were used in roles they could not perform. In the case of U-boats, the weapon was fully developed, but the doctrine was not ready. In fact, in many ways, the U-19 is better boat than the average 1917 boat. U-boats and Naval Zeppelins were huge success in OTL. Aircraft carriers and land Zeppelins were mixed.

About the CP flag ships and submarines, I am going to assume MerryPankster are unfamiliar with OTL German Merchants. So for background.

The British Navy was half of the worlds merchant ships, and the Germans had 10%. By mid September 1915 with the exception of less than 10 merchant raiders, all German flag ships were in port. The British had captured over 800,000 tons of shipping. The bulk of the German merchant fleet was in Indonesia, Eastern South America, USA, Spanish Colonies, and Portuguese Colonies. So right away, there is a 10% reduction in world trade in the mist of a huge demand for additional trade in a war. All powers had ships in all powers ports at the start of the war. So to the submarine questions, there are not targets, the power of the British Navy made the useless as long unless they do unrestricted submarine warfare AGAINST NEUTRALS INCLUDING THE USA, which might happen in this time line, if the British get desperate enough.

As to blockading, the British were stopping mostly neutral ships to neutral countries. The USA position was only war party property on war party ships was subjected to a blockade. The British position was that it had be be all neutral to be safe. I am leaving a lot of details out, but this summarizes the effective position. So the North Sea blockade was stopping ships loaded with stuff like fertilizer, blocks of metal, food, animal fodder, hand tools and the like going to mostly Holland. There was huge USA anger over the British blockade, but sinking of passenger liners and unrestricted warfare overshadowed this anger. And if following cruiser rules, cruisers work better than submarines, and they British have lots of older, less useful ships.

[BlondieBC]

(NA) September 17, 1914: U-46 lost while on operations in channel to a patrol boat.

(WA) September 20: Ethnic Germans volunteers from South America begin to arrive on the supply ships from Brazil.

(PO) September 24: Japan does second landing at Lungkow, and they now have 24,000 troops and siege guns ashore.

(WA) September 25: German victory at Sanfontein.

OTL Merchant Tonnage Sunk/Captured: 98,000

Additional Tonnage Sunk/Captured by Merchant Cruisers (including mines) for the Month:
(WA) 45,000
(EA) 18,000
(PO) 0

Additional Tonnage Sunk/Captured by U-boats:
(WA) 6,000
(EA) 4,000
(PO) 45,000

Total Tonnage: 216,000.

Total for War: 378,000


The British and German Navies are recovering from a very busy opening to the war.

[Detlef]

Originally Posted by BlondieBC

Items for the submarine/raider command include the following:

1) Send 3 Zeppelins to Douala, 3 to Dar Es Salaam.
2) Request for designs are sent out to the U-boat manufactures. Von Schultze ask for a design with a 4 knot speed advantage over the fastest battlecruiser with the range of a battlecruiser. He is also interested in a "fast merchant raider" U-boat escort design with extremely long range. All future designs will need a larger complement of torpedoes.

1) I assume these will be purpose-built long-range Zeppelins?
If Wikipedia can be trusted the L.59 which was trying to resupply Lettow-Vorbeck (German East Africa) in our TL in 1917 had a volume (gas capacity) of more than double the then 1914/15 models. And it started from Bulgaria. Here in this TL in 1914/15 they´ll have to start in Hungary / Croatia?
More engines and a gondola suitable for several days of flight are probably needed too.
Plus they´ll need to carry spare parts and equipment to produce hydrogen to stay in business? Or will that get delivered from the Americas?

2) "4 knot speed advantage over the fastest battlecruiser"?
Von Schultze likes to ask for the impossible? The German battlecruisers back then had a top speed of 27/28 knots. Or do you mean dreadnoughts? Top speed of 20+ knots?

15-18 knots surfaced for U-boats seems more like it.
And von Schultze should know it? I mean the German HSF destroyers ("Grosse Torpedoboote") - comparable in size - needed 15000 to 20000 hp to reach 30+ knots. The U-boats had diesel engines capable of just 2400 hp.

I approve of more torpedoes.
6 is definitely not enough.

http://www.uboat.net/wwi/types/
Something like the type "Large Ms. boats" for long-range and the "U 93" boats for the rest seem to be a realistic goal.
Coupled maybe with some U-boats as supply ships (U 142 type) for additional fuel and torpedoes. Kind of like the type XIV "("Milchkuh") U-boats of WW2.

Instead of asking for unrealistic surface speeds it might make more sense to ask for better max. diving depth? Given that the Royal Navy definitely will try to develop ASW capabilities. 50-75 meters isn´t that great in our TL WW1. The 200+ meters of WW2 submarines seems much safer.
(A surface speed of 20+ knots is simply unrealistic, a hull designed to survive a diving depth of 100+ meters is merely difficult.)

[BlondieBC]

Originally Posted by Detlef

1) I assume these will be purpose-built long-range Zeppelins?
If Wikipedia can be trusted the L.59 which was trying to resupply Lettow-Vorbeck (German East Africa) in our TL in 1917 had a volume (gas capacity) of more than double the then 1914/15 models. And it started from Bulgaria. Here in this TL in 1914/15 they´ll have to start in Hungary / Croatia?
More engines and a gondola suitable for several days of flight are probably needed too.
Plus they´ll need to carry spare parts and equipment to produce hydrogen to stay in business? Or will that get delivered from the Americas?

2) "4 knot speed advantage over the fastest battlecruiser"?
Von Schultze likes to ask for the impossible? The German battlecruisers back then had a top speed of 27/28 knots. Or do you mean dreadnoughts? Top speed of 20+ knots?

15-18 knots surfaced for U-boats seems more like it.
And von Schultze should know it? I mean the German HSF destroyers ("Grosse Torpedoboote") - comparable in size - needed 15000 to 20000 hp to reach 30+ knots. The U-boats had diesel engines capable of just 2400 hp.

I approve of more torpedoes.
6 is definitely not enough.

http://www.uboat.net/wwi/types/
Something like the type "Large Ms. boats" for long-range and the "U 93" boats for the rest seem to be a realistic goal.
Coupled maybe with some U-boats as supply ships (U 142 type) for additional fuel and torpedoes. Kind of like the type XIV "("Milchkuh") U-boats of WW2.

Instead of asking for unrealistic surface speeds it might make more sense to ask for better max. diving depth? Given that the Royal Navy definitely will try to develop ASW capabilities. 50-75 meters isn´t that great in our TL WW1. The 200+ meters of WW2 submarines seems much safer.
(A surface speed of 20+ knots is simply unrealistic, a hull designed to survive a diving depth of 100+ meters is merely difficult.)

Von Schultze is not an naval architect, so he ask for what he needs. And Von Schultze is looking for scouts for BC, not BB. He budget just went up like 20 to 1, so he can hope. The 1915 delivery schedule will be met, the rest is planning. I have not got to any radically new designs, because they would likely show up in 1916 at the earliest. In 1916, I plan to bring out the roughly U-93ish 12+ torpedo boat, 10,000 range, other needed changes. Maybe in 1917, if needed, the more radical stuff from the 1920's.

To deeper, yes that is a need, and easy to build, but the British have no depth charges, only whaling harpoons. Late 1916, depth charges show up in OTL, so it is mid 1915 at the earliest here. Von Schultze is choosing more ships, not better ships, at least at this point.



On the Zeppelin, i was getting a 30 to 60 hour range at 50 mph. But i reality, the Germans used agents and shell companies to do it. I was seeing more like Croatia to Libya to West Africa. Hungary to Palestine to East Africa. It looked well with the range of a two hop trip. Also don't forget Italian area in Africa. These are just the standard Zeppelin, stripped of weapons for range, carrying extra fuel. The spare parts are come by ship, West Africa is totally unblockaded, and the East Africa has a very weak blockade. In OTL, there is one gunboat in the South Atlantic. The rest of the ships you read about in the war came from England. There are 60 ships in the Indian Ocean, almost entirely on the Yemen to Sri Lanka to Singapore line.

[Adler17]

BTW, in OTL the CL SMS Königsberg sank only one merchant vessel. But that brought the first tea of the season to England. Here something shocking like this could happen, too .

Adler

[BlondieBC]

Originally Posted by Adler17

BTW, in OTL the CL SMS Königsberg sank only one merchant vessel. But that brought the first tea of the season to England. Here something shocking like this could happen, too .

Adler

Actually, very little tea will make it to Britain in this ATL. Food before tea. The King will surrender by say May 1915. The tea issue is about 2 posts from now.

The Konigsberg will play a much bigger role in the ATL. In OTL, cruiser attacked Dar Es Salaam and the Germans blocked the harbor. In the ATL, the U-boats sank one cruiser on the way to the attack the port.

BTW, on spare naval guns. Do nations have the spare naval guns in inventory, or do I basically have to scrap a ship to free up 10 inch plus guns?

[Obfuscated]

Originally Posted by BlondieBC

Actually, very little tea will make it to Britain in this ATL. Food before tea. The King will surrender by say May 1915. The tea issue is about 2 posts from now.

The Konigsberg will play a much bigger role in the ATL. In OTL, cruiser attacked Dar Es Salaam and the Germans blocked the harbor. In the ATL, the U-boats sank one cruiser on the way to the attack the port.

BTW, on spare naval guns. Do nations have the spare naval guns in inventory, or do I basically have to scrap a ship to free up 10 inch plus guns?

It is common practice to have replacement barrels. The fiddly bits -turrets assemblies and such - however tend to be built on demand. If you're lucky there is a half finished hull you can take those off.

[Josephus]

The Germans used some 30,5 L50 guns for coastal defence in Belgium as well as the Langer Max, the 30,5 L45 planned for Sachsen and Württhemberg.

But they've got plenty of old 28cm guns, too, from obsolete Predreads, or 24cm from the Siegfrieds, old armored cruisers or Predread Mittelartillerie, plus any spares still in stock. It won't hurt the war effort to ship some of those guns to Africa and use the old ships as hulks.

[Detlef]

Originally Posted by BlondieBC

Von Schultze is not an naval architect, so he ask for what he needs. And Von Schultze is looking for scouts for BC, not BB. He budget just went up like 20 to 1, so he can hope. The 1915 delivery schedule will be met, the rest is planning. I have not got to any radically new designs, because they would likely show up in 1916 at the earliest. In 1916, I plan to bring out the roughly U-93ish 12+ torpedo boat, 10,000 range, other needed changes. Maybe in 1917, if needed, the more radical stuff from the 1920's,

Von Schultze isn´t an idiot- or he shouldn´t be one -...
There is no way in h*ll any slight competent commander won´t grasp that you can´t squeeze the machinery for 20000 hp on a U-boat with 2400 hp.

Originally Posted by BlondieBC

To deeper, yes that is a need, and easy to build, but the British have no depth charges, only whaling harpoons. Late 1916, depth charges show up in OTL, so it is mid 1915 at the earliest here. Von Schultze is choosing more ships, not better ships, at least at this point.

Choosing more ships than better ships right now, fine.
But as I said, asking for 20 or 30+ knots speed for U-boats is quite simply not possible. Instead of asking the impossible. simply asking the mere difficult thing (better diving depth) might result in better results in 1-2 years?

Originally Posted by BlondieBC

On the Zeppelin, i was getting a 30 to 60 hour range at 50 mph. But i reality, the Germans used agents and shell companies to do it. I was seeing more like Croatia to Libya to West Africa. Hungary to Palestine to East Africa. It looked well with the range of a two hop trip. Also don't forget Italian area in Africa. These are just the standard Zeppelin, stripped of weapons for range, carrying extra fuel. The spare parts are come by ship, West Africa is totally unblockaded, and the East Africa has a very weak blockade. In OTL, there is one gunboat in the South Atlantic. The rest of the ships you read about in the war came from England. There are 60 ships in the Indian Ocean, almost entirely on the Yemen to Sri Lanka to Singapore line.

This is late 1914/ early 1915,
Both Italy and the Ottoman Empire are still neutral. No way you can send Zeppelins across their borders and expect them to be quiet about it. The 1914/15 Zeppelins aren´t flying high enough to be deliberately missed by them. And they are slow....

He*k, just one "storm" with winds above 100 km per hours and the Zeppelins will stand still. And that´s the new improved 1916/17 models in our TL.

And just to mention it the L59 airship (Bulgaria-German East Africa and back) was in the air for 95 hours without actually reaching the target. And especially built.
The 1914/15 models simply aren´t big enough, don´t have strong enough engines to allow them a such a long-range destination.

[BlondieBC]

Originally Posted by Detlef

Von Schultze isn´t an idiot- or he shouldn´t be one -...
There is no way in h*ll any slight competent commander won´t grasp that you can´t squeeze the machinery for 20000 hp on a U-boat with 2400 hp.



Choosing more ships than better ships right now, fine.
But as I said, asking for 20 or 30+ knots speed for U-boats is quite simply not possible. Instead of asking the impossible. simply asking the mere difficult thing (better diving depth) might result in better results in 1-2 years?



This is late 1914/ early 1915,
Both Italy and the Ottoman Empire are still neutral. No way you can send Zeppelins across their borders and expect them to be quiet about it. The 1914/15 Zeppelins aren´t flying high enough to be deliberately missed by them. And they are slow....

He*k, just one "storm" with winds above 100 km per hours and the Zeppelins will stand still. And that´s the new improved 1916/17 models in our TL.

And just to mention it the L59 airship (Bulgaria-German East Africa and back) was in the air for 95 hours without actually reaching the target. And especially built.
The 1914/15 models simply aren´t big enough, don´t have strong enough engines to allow them a such a long-range destination.

IMO, the problem with ATL is that people don't do enough strange and dumb things. For example, everyone and their dog new Sarajevo could lead to war, but Kaiser goes on vacation. Moving the fleet to Scapa Flow without sub protection. Then there are all the things Churchill asked for in both wars. And finally, look up the Russian super tank in OTL and the submarine with wheels. These two were actually built. Or the Adolf Hitler design with 20 inch guns. From time to time, people in the story will do dumb things, and they will often take the sub-optimal route.

Also he is asking for designs is not a huge resource issue. He is not asking for prototypes to be built, just can you build X, and what does it costs.

Despite the during and post war propaganda, everyone cheated. How do I do it. Simple a German citizen or agent used money to buy equipment and ship it to Libya. It is setup in the remote desert location, and it is done without prior notice to the Italians. The Ottomans lean CP, so there is no issue to deal with really. The Zeppelins had enough hydrogen to land on at least one time per voyage, so I am really just supply fuel, food, and have some spare parts. The Von Spee fuel his ships from coal ships from Chile, despite assurance to the government this was not happening. They also used Eastern Island for about 8 days. Also they took a Chilean fjord, setup a temporary land base, and used it for months for merchant raiders.

The British also played fast and lose with the surface blockade rules and status of ships in the Suez. Japan violated Chinese neutrality. etc.

The L59 went most of the way there, then came back. My research show ships could do 60 hours in the air early in the war with a 50 mph speed. This could make it most of the way. They also had done 24 hour endurance test by the 1910. They did 30 hour trips to London with bombs fairly early in the war, that is 60 hours one way. Take out the weight of the bombs, machine guns, some crew members, and other non essential items, it looks like the range is there. The L59 was custom built to supply materials from the scrap, these are going to be used, so no need for redesign.

[NHBL]

There are usually an abundance of spare barrells. Also, spare guns are stockpiled to a certain extent--battle damage happens. After a major battle, you don't want to be waiting on new guns...

[BlondieBC]

(WA) October: After using the first two months of the war to repulse three attack columns from Nigeria and one from the French Sahara, General Zimmermann decides to seize the initiative with his 4,000 German and 25,000 native troops. His troops are equipped between A-H and German TOE, making them the best equipped army between Italy and South Africa. The marine unit is up to a full regiment strength by the end of the month.

(NA) October 1: HMS Aboukir, Cressy and Hogue sail from port to replace ships on the Greenland blockade line.

(PO) October 2: Hans Rose begins a coordinated attack near the Dutch East Indies. The three U-boats on station around Singapore/Hong Kong have begun the long, direct run to Dar Es Salaam. From south of Davoa, Philippines, he divides his 9 U-boats into 3 equal parts. Squadron one will travel around the NW side of Borneo and begin operations around Singapore. Squadron 2 will travel south east of Borneo and operate around Java. Squadron 4 will include the 3 surface ships and will travel to the Molucca Sea to the Timor Sea. From there, two U-boats will opearate in the area around Timor, while the surface ships and one U-boat will make a straight run to Dar Es Salaam avoiding contact. His intelligence indicates less than 8 cruisers and 8 destroyers in the Western Pacific, south of Hong Kong and West of Rabual. In the next 14 days, the 9 U-boats will claim over 300,000 tons of shipping while broadly following cruiser rules. The targets are so plentiful, most of the U-boat commanders ignore any ship under 4000 tons. One cruiser is sunk 10 nm from the three German surface ships while approaching to investigate. Another second-rate cruiser is sunk while traveling at low speed near Java. All Entente shipping near the Dutch East Indies grinds to a complete halt for most of the remainder of the month. Hans Rose will later report that he was on a pace for over 800,000 tons of shipping if not for Entente shipping refusing to leave port. By the middle of the month, all U-boats are well on their way to East Africa due mainly to a lack of torpedoes.

(WA) October 3: A regiment lands near Calabar. The two companies of Nigerian soliders are quickly overwhelmed. Two Zeppelins arrive in Kamerun.

(EA) October 4: Three Zeppelins arrive in German East Africa.

(NA) October 5: Von Shultze sends 3 long range U-boats to West Africa to reinforce the squadron, to provide sensitive/complicated intel, and to send additional officers to help with the ground war.

(WA) October 8: A full divisions of soldiers begins landing near Port Harcourt. The Nigerian battalion commander begins withdrawing on the same day to north Nigeria to link up with the other 3 Battalions in the country.

(NA) October 9: Prince Henry approves the conversion of 3 ships into aircraft carriers.

October 11: Steamer Hobart loses a code book

October 15: President Wilson sends a note to both Germany and the UK. He complains about the English Channel, North Sea, Africa, and Asian minefields, and he ask for clarification on what the Germans consider "lifeboat near land". He also refers to the German battleship attack on England as "excessive".

(WA) October 19: The Germans are in full control of the Niger Delta.

(PO) October 26: After repeated request by the British for more naval assistance from Japan, the Foreign Minister of the UK receives a reply from Japan. "After the operations in Tsingtao are completed, Japan will be able to provide additional assistance to the Entente. Our Naval and Army are developing plans to garrison and administer Hong Kong and Singapore, provided the assistance is publicly requested by the King of England."

October 29: Ottomans enter the war.

OTL Merchant Tonnage Sunk/Captured: 88,000
Additional Tonnage Sunk/Captured by Merchant Cruisers (including mines) for the Month:

(WA) 66,000
(EA) 34,000
(PO) 0

Additional Tonnage Sunk/Captured by U-boats:

(WA) 1,000
(EA) 8,000
(PO) 316,000

Total Tonnage: 513,000 (Level not exceeded in OTL until Feb 1917).

Total for War: 891,000. (Matches mid-July 1915 total in OTL)

The UK has hit the pain (Navy will lose war) level. I have spent most of my time on the German side of things and I have some ideas about how the British will react. I am also open to suggestions, even very creative ones. Please note: The British do not have any additional units over OTL, so the units used in any move have to come from somewhere.

I am also going to give a sample day in the next post to help clarify what is happening in the world.

[NHBL]

Japan "administering" Singapore and Hong Kong? I wonder how easy it will be to get them to leave?

If Britain looses, then those two colonies are likely gone also...

[SAVORYapple]

The grand fleet is effectively bottled up.

I'm thinking for U-boats to escort German shipping to scare the British off

[BlondieBC]

Originally Posted by NHBL

Japan "administering" Singapore and Hong Kong? I wonder how easy it will be to get them to leave?

If Britain looses, then those two colonies are likely gone also...

I am not a diplomat, but i tried to write an extortion attempt for Hong Kong in "diplomatic speak". My views may be wrong, but I see Japan from 1890 to 1945 always becoming aggressive on perceived weakness. I also have read a lot of threads that Britain would never make peace, which is true to some extent. Britain will only make peace with Germany when the alternative is worse. I see about a 0% chance the UK takes Japan up on the offer, but they might make a counter offer.

Originally Posted by lookupshootup

The grand fleet is effectively bottled up.

I'm thinking for U-boats to escort German shipping to scare the British off

You are ahead of me, it is in the next few posts. I been working on the rule of thumb that any really new uses take a few months to implement. So Germany has some choices of uses of U-boats. I basically have the concept of the war through December, but it will take some time to write. I spent a lot of time researching over the holidays, and now I am slowing down some.

I think 800K+ tons lost is enough to get Britain to adjust the strategy, so by say February, Britain strategy will start to differ greatly from OTL.

Both Germany and the UK face the same choice: Is it better to enforce a blockade or break the enemy's blockade.

[wietze]

Originally Posted by BlondieBC

[B]
(PO) October 2: Hans Rose begins a coordinated attack on the Dutch East Indies.

This is extremely unlikely as it would majorly piss of the netherlands, which at this point is neutral but leaning towards germany. secondly they need the netherlands to be able to import stuff. so this kind of operations in the DEI are extremely unlikely, unless germany is planning to declare war on the netherlands, because what rose effectively did is declaring war on the Netherlands.

What this kind of action would do is the Netherlands a) send a formal protest to germany b) would go strictly neutral (or even leaning towards entente) and c) would come to view germany as the biggest threat

[BlondieBC]

Originally Posted by wietze

This is extremely unlikely as it would majorly piss of the netherlands, which at this point is neutral but leaning towards germany. secondly they need the netherlands to be able to import stuff. so this kind of operations in the DEI are extremely unlikely, unless germany is planning to declare war on the netherlands, because what rose effectively did is declaring war on the Netherlands.

What this kind of action would do is the Netherlands a) send a formal protest to germany b) would go strictly neutral (or even leaning towards entente) and c) would come to view germany as the biggest threat

I probably should have used the word near. He is attacking British flagged ships, which are 50% of all ships.

The entry has been fixed.