An Age of Miracles: The Revival of Rhomanion

[Artemetis]

Originally Posted by Dragos Cel Mare

Hungary hates Venice, while Vlachia likes the Rhomans. Despite the diplomatic malus created by the impalings, perhaps they could make an alliance of convinience? And of course, there's Russia.

I think it'd be much more likely that if Hungary and Vlachia came to Rhomania's aid it would be seperately; Hungary would invade Venice and possibly harass Adriatic shipping while Vlachia would deal with those upstart Serbians and Bulgarians.

[Dragos Cel Mare]

I think the Serbians, for now, are too strong for Vlachia. Bulgaria, however...

[t0m1991]

Originally Posted by eliphas8

I just noticed this but Rome now has all the pieces ready for the Restore the Pentarchy mission.

They also need Rome itself, and I doubt they are all Orthodox

And I hope Rome does win the war, I normally like Venice but ITTL they really need annihilating.

[Dragos Cel Mare]

Indeed. They only focus on the actrocities that are done to them, not what they do to others. Moral Myopia at it's finest (I'm pretty sure the term predates TV.tropes). Perhaps the end of the Middle Ages is Venice being besieged?

[Elfwine]

Originally Posted by Dragos Cel Mare

Indeed. They only focus on the actrocities that are done to them, not what they do to others. Moral Myopia at it's finest (I'm pretty sure the term predates TV.tropes). Perhaps the end of the Middle Ages is Venice being besieged?

One can hope. The so-called horses of St. Mark's belong to Constantinople.

[frozenpredator]

Originally Posted by Dragos Cel Mare

Indeed. They only focus on the actrocities that are done to them, not what they do to others. Moral Myopia at it's finest (I'm pretty sure the term predates TV.tropes). Perhaps the end of the Middle Ages is Venice being besieged?

it was supposed to take a generation.

my guess is the fall of Rome to Roman troops is the end of the Middle Ages

[Dragos Cel Mare]

And after that, Aztecs D' Avingon!

[Arrix85]

Originally Posted by frozenpredator

it was supposed to take a generation.

my guess is the fall of Rome to Roman troops is the end of the Middle Ages

Would be almost poetic, with the fall of the Western Roman Empire to start them and the Roman Empire regaining the city of Rome (I was going to say the City, ma these romans would use it for Costantinople). This conquest, given a recovery time for Rhomania should fit well with the generation time table.

edit: A date popped up in my mind, 1476, for a new "fall of Rome". Too much of a stretch a neat thousand years?

[frozenpredator]

Originally Posted by Arrix85

Would be almost poetic, with the fall of the Western Roman Empire to start them and the Roman Empire regaining the city of Rome (I was going to say the City, ma these romans would use it for Costantinople). This conquest, given a recovery time for Rhomania should fit well with the generation time table.

edit: A date popped up in my mind, 1476, for a new "fall of Rome". Too much of a stretch a neat thousand years?

could be a good one, and indeed poetic.

ROME 1476!

[Arrix85]

Another consequence of the Black Day could have the Romans change their oppressive policies against Italians and the cultural "union" (of the two "nations" claiming direct roman heritage) could have a huge impact other than the only geopolitical consequence of a roman papacy moving or maybe withering down eventually.

[Avitus]

It wasn't the fanciest writing I've seen on this thread, but that last chapter epitomizes everything I hope for in an alt history plot. Generals on campaign, navies mobilizing, riots in the streets, traitors letting in the attackers, exposed flanks, rampant opportunism, religiously fueled rivalry, the razor's edge between glory and infamy, and an emperor having the worlds worst FML moment. It makes me appreciate the name of the chapter quite a bit, as it is simply perfect discriptively.

As for the war, I can't see Venice's fleet gaining control of the Bosporus, especially since less is more for navies in tight areas like that. Greece (up to but not including Thessalonica), Southern Italy, the northern Balkans, and all the Islands in the empire are in some deep shit. Speaking of Islands, maybe Pope Julius will convince venice to prioritize sacking Cyprus, as he does have quite the history there, and it is economically important for the Romans. I picture the Venetians staying out of Anatolia because it's just too big for them to attempt to conquer, and because it has too much interior area where there fleet is useleess. I eagerly await the next update my Basileus

[Tyg]

I don't know the degree to which Central Asian trade routes figured into the Roman economy, but the disruption of overland links to China are very apt to be at least partially offset.

The Black Sea trade in general should be developing rapidly, and the short Volga-Don portage means even the Caspian can get in on that. For the Romans, that mostly means an ever-greater supply (at cheaper prices) of primary products. The fact that Black Sea rivers make high-volume transport very practical even for bulk goods, and that the Roman economy is highly maritime pushes that even further. Given that the Roman economy is a highly urban and mercantile one, and its geographic position, this trade can only be accelerating the growth of artisans, commerce, and early manufacturing (such as it is).

More than that, the Ottomans lost their foundries and supplies, and the Georgians also need to rebuild their forces as well as Baku. The most practical option for much of this comes from Roman production, which must be growing in capacity all the time. Fortunately, the Basra-India-SEAsia route seems undisturbed, so Antioch should still be getting plenty of traffic (and the Ottomans can pay for Roman imports to recover).

For the moment, I don't think money is a pressing concern for the Romans, especially not compared to manpower. And if there's one thing that Renaissance history has taught me, it's that money can definitely buy an army--or at least the units for one. Perhaps the Russians and Georgians might allow some recruitment if Constantinople bears the cost.

Further, others have mentioned Vlachia and Hungary either intervening or simply taking advantage... But it's worth noting that military intervention isn't the only way other powers can get involved. The Avignon Papacy can wield a lot of influence, and both it and Genoa could move quite a bit of money if the Romans seek a loan. More than that, Venice needs to be very careful not to give Aragon, Sicily, Genoa, etc a casus belli by damaging or disrupting their merchant quarters or looting their property--The Roman fleet might be caught by surprise, but Venice almost certainly doesn't have the numbers to overawe Constantinople's navy, support armies in Italy and the Aegean, and defend against western intervention all at the same time.


...
Looking back at this post, I suspect Emperor Theodoros and I would get along splendidly, and not a single coin would escape.

[Dragos Cel Mare]

Originally Posted by Arrix85

Another consequence of the Black Day could have the Romans change their oppressive policies against Italians and the cultural "union" (of the two "nations" claiming direct roman heritage) could have a huge impact other than the only geopolitical consequence of a roman papacy moving or maybe withering down eventually.

Yes! The Romans are anything but unpragmatic about such matters. They may hate Catholics, but the more competent Emperors have been those that paid attention to the 99%. Show them the profit and they'll come around.

[Evilprodigy]

Originally Posted by eliphas8

I just noticed this but Rome now has all the pieces ready for the Restore the Pentarchy mission.

They don't own Rome or Alexandria or Jerusalem, they occupy Alexandria and Jerusalem though but I also don't think that all 3 of those places are Orthodox.

[elkarlo]

Even with the Serbs and Bulgarians, the Venetians will have a heck of a time taking Constantinople. As the Turks had a hard time in the same era, with nearby supply bases, the walls being undermanned and old, and so on. Their best bet is to take as much as the Balkans as they can. As it is a white elephant, or perhaps better said, rocks to dash your armies upon.

Also if the Byzantines are smart, they'll ignore the Balkan invasions as much as possible, and take out Egypt. Akin to Heraclius strategy, let Constantinople bleed their armies, while you take out their homeland.

[Arrix85]

Originally Posted by elkarlo

Also if the Byzantines are smart, they'll ignore the Balkan invasions as much as possible, and take out Egypt. Akin to Heraclius strategy, let Constantinople bleed their armies, while you take out their homeland.

Interesting, this strategy is possible in the era of gunpowder? I don't know about better the walls of Costantinoples are, then again Damascus (which should not have walls as good) lasted six months against the Romans (but maybe the roman army had far less cannons than the Venetians seem to have) so maybe Costantinople can hold out for quite a time (and the populace will fight to the last man, I doubt anyone has forgotten the sack of 1204).

[Elfwine]

Originally Posted by Arrix85

Interesting, this strategy is possible in the era of gunpowder? I don't know about better the walls of Costantinoples are, then again Damascus (which should not have walls as good) lasted six months against the Romans (but maybe the roman army had far less cannons than the Venetians seem to have) so maybe Costantinople can hold out for quite a time (and the populace will fight to the last man, I doubt anyone has forgotten the sack of 1204).

OTL cannons took seven weeks against walls not in good shape, with weaker defenders in all ways.

And of course, first Venice has to get to the city.

So I'd say it's possible - but it's definitely dependent on the city garrison and the leaders left behind.

[Arrix85]

A question to our Basileus: when can we expect some kicking of permians' as**s by the Russians? now that they are not vassal of Samarkand anymore...

[rbarata]

Hi Basileus,

This is my first post to this forum, and I must say that your history has been a pleasure to read. Thank you!

Some questions, if I may:

• Are the Venetians growing sugar plantations in Crete (aka Candia) the same way the Rhomans have been in Cyprus?
• Are the Portuguese selling west african slaves to them?
• Are the Portuguese ALSO selling slaves to the Rhomans?

If the Venetians are deriving a big enough part of their income from Cretan sugar, I can expect some major naval battles both in there and in Cyprus.

[Dragos Cel Mare]

I think that yes, Venice was growing Sugar in Crete.