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  #2041  
Old April 24th, 2012, 08:26 PM
frozenpredator frozenpredator is offline
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Originally Posted by rldragon View Post
I am speechless. In a good way, also.

Furthermore, Shah Rukh is entirely too likeable.
and being so likeable is why he's such a big threat
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  #2042  
Old April 24th, 2012, 09:38 PM
Evilprodigy Evilprodigy is offline
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Evilprodigy: Interesting. I've been using the names of OTL Ottoman sultans. There was at least one Bayezid (Yilderim) but I don't remember any Yazids.
There were two Bayezid's in the Ottoman Empire IOTL, good old Bayezid I Yilderim (The Thunderbolt) Osman and Bayezid II Velî (The Saint) Osman. There was no Yazid unfortunately, as much as I may want there to be, so I also have no clue as to why he has the name "Father of Yazid" when as a child he would be father of nothing... or, just like nowadays, they didn't bother to look up the meaning of the name when naming little Bayezid.
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  #2043  
Old April 25th, 2012, 03:13 AM
elkarlo elkarlo is offline
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I am loving it. Only thing, seems the Timurids aren't firing that many arrows. Too many levees?
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  #2044  
Old April 25th, 2012, 07:46 AM
Dragos Cel Mare Dragos Cel Mare is offline
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Possibly. They might risk friendly fire if they try shooting more.
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  #2045  
Old April 25th, 2012, 08:29 AM
Arrix85 Arrix85 is online now
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The fact that Shah Rukh is "likeable" or at least "understandable" makes him a real character, a real person, not an evil monster (even if in the eyes of everyone of his enemies he is that and always will be).
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  #2046  
Old April 25th, 2012, 10:51 AM
Basileus444 Basileus444 is offline
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rldragon: Glad it's a good speechless. I wanted Shah Rukh to be more than a generic bad guy; I'm happy I succeeded.

frozenpredator: Exactly.

Evilprodigy: Thanks for the info. Yilderim was the only one I knew of the top of my head, but I agree, naming a child that makes no sense. The parents probably just thought it sounded cool or something.

elkarlo: Pretty much. The bulk of Shah Rukh's manpower, particularly for this campaign after the losses at Ramsar, is from the Tieh component of the empire. That is Chinese and Korean infantry, equipped mostly with the spear, mace, and sword but not usually the bow.

Dragos Cel Mare: That's part of it. Also at Ramsar Shah Rukh's light troops didn't do a very good job breaking the janissaries (and then they got flattened by the sipahi charge). With this campaign Shah Rukh knew he was going up against Roman and Georgian skutatoi, so he elected to follow his grandfather's plan: hit them with heavy infantry. Timur's medium troops didn't have the quality of Timur's Khorasani used at Manzikert, so Shah Rukh was forced to go for bulk. And then supply issues prevented him from bringing along proper archer support.

Arrix85: Considering all the LOTR references, it's easy to see Shah Rukh as Sauron (the unintentional similarity in names doesn't help). I didn't want that. If anyone was a Sauron, it was Timur.
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  #2047  
Old April 25th, 2012, 11:06 AM
Basileus444 Basileus444 is offline
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The War For Asia

Part 5: The Lords of Asia

The Field of Taji, Night of June 1, 1450:


The candlelight flickered on the insides of the tent. Outside could be heard the crackle of fifteen thousand campfires and the rustling of sleepy men and horses as they bedded down for the night.

“You idiot,” Shah Rukh snarled, glaring at his oldest son.

“How could I-” Mahmud protested.

“It’s your duty! A leader has to lead; you have to be able to bring men into battle and lead them to victory. This is something you continually fail to do. You failed to guard against the Ottoman charge at Ramsar. Then you failed to make sure Tabriz was protected.” His meaty fist slammed against the rough wooden table, causing the rocks holding the corner of the map down to jump. “And now this! The allied center could have been mauled, if you had gotten the men to stand and fight. Instead they were able to retire without contest.”

He rubbed his head. “I should’ve brought Jahangir instead.”

“What?”

“I said, I should’ve brought your younger brother instead. Except if I’d left you in Beijing, all of China would be in open revolt by now.”

“That’s not fair.”

A sneer. “Oh, it isn’t, my idiot offspring?”

“No, it isn’t. You’ve always favored Jahangir. He’s the one you appointed as your viceroy in Beijing when you invaded southern China. He’s the one you placed as commander of the Korean expedition. He’s the one you sent when the Mongols got restless. He’s-”

“Enough. He’s always shown himself capable of doing those things. You have not. This latest debacle is just another in a long list of your failures.” A pause. “I should have done this a long time ago.”

“What are you saying?”

“I’m saying, I have not spent my entire life building an empire greater than anything seen since the days of Genghis Khan to hand it over to a moron who will just lose it. Instead it’s all going to Jahangir. He has what a man needs to rule an Empire.”

Tears clouded Mahmud’s eyes. “You can’t do that. I’m the eldest. I’m the rightful heir.”

“I can, and I will. Now get out of here. You are nothing to me now.”

“But, father-”

“I said, get out. I am no longer your father. You are no longer a part of my line. Now lea-” Shah Rukh gurgled, staring down in surprise at the sword blade buried in his belly. Mahmud’s hands were clenched around the blade, his knuckles white, his eyes glistening with anger and fear. Shah Rukh smiled weakly and whispered. “Better.”

Mahmud, in surprise, let go of the hilt. There was a thud as his father collapsed onto the ground, lying on his back, the pommel pointed up, his eyes wide open, staring through the tent into the night sky. There was a rattle, a sigh, and Shah Rukh, Hongwu Emperor of China, Great Khan of Mongolia and the Golden Horde, King of Korea and Urumqi, Sovereign of Kashmir, Tibet, and Champa, Khagan of the Uzbeks, Uyghurs, and Tatars, heir of Timur the Great, the Lord of Asia, was no more.

* * *

"The death of Shah Rukh, Lord of Asia, is considered by most to be the end of the Middle Ages in Asia. It had been a bloody end, its finale The Battle, a title which to this day has never been challenged or usurped. In Europe the Middle Ages still had one more generation to run. But like its Asian counterpart, it would not go quietly."-Excerpt from The Fall of the Middle Ages


1450 continued: With the death of Shah Rukh, Mahmud succeeds him as commander of the army, blaming the Lord of Asia’s death on a Roman assassin. As Galdan of Merv, the most respected and feared Timurid commander after Shah Rukh himself, is also dead, he faces little personal opposition to his assumption of command. However his authority over his troops is extremely shaky, because at best he is viewed as a non-entity militarily, and at worst a complete imbecile. The keshiks, the most powerful unit, man-for-man, in the host mainly subscribe to the later view.

There is also the matter of his younger brother Jahangir, Viceroy of China. Mahmud cannot afford to give his brother a chance to seize Urumqi and Samarkand before he does as it would kill any chance of him ruling over the united Timurid-Tieh Empire. But to do that he needs peace on his western flank. Thus on June 2, the new ‘Lord of Asia’ meets with the allied monarchs.

His terms are simple, the restitution of the pre-war status quo. All lost territories are to be ceded back to their owners, all prisoners returned without ransom. While there are some in the allied camp who want to push on and destroy the Timurid army, namely Bayezid and Nasir, the heavy losses give the others pause. The terms are accepted.

The main hangup is when Mahmud asks Theodoros for Galdan’s body back. If he had custody of the body and was able to bury it in Merv, it would do much to secure the Mervians’ loyalty to Mahmud’s cause. However Theodoros wants money for it. Mahmud points out that all prisoners are to be returned without ransom. The Roman Emperor responds that since Galdan is free to leave whenever he wants, he’s not a prisoner so that clause doesn’t apply.

Mahmud gives up and offers the Timurid equivalent of 10,000 hyperpyra. Theodoros wants 100,000. Over a hour is spent on the haggling, which ends with Mahmud getting the body for the price of 55,000 hyperpyra. Except the body is still missing its head, impaled on a spike in the Roman camp. Mahmud is livid, Theodoros pointing out that the ‘Lord of Asia’ didn’t ask for the head, only the body. Eventually Mahmud gets the head as well, but Theodoros receives another 27,000 hyperpyra.

Immediately Mahmud races back to Samarkand, detaching his Persian garrisons as well as the army menacing Basra before the Ottomans take custody of their lost provinces. Before Bayezid can arrive, the locals rise up, seizing the towns and citadels, and shortly afterwards pledging their loyalty to the Jalayirid Khan Qasim II. Using the battle-hardened corps of troops from the years of anti-Ottoman campaigning, as soon as he hears the news of Mahmud’s retreat, he sweeps in and secures those territories. The Ottomans, utterly exhausted by their losses at Ramsar and The Battle, are incapable of resisting. All of Osman’s conquests in Persia are lost, the frontier rolled back to its position in 1420.

When Qasim returns to Fars, he grants himself a new title, reflecting his new goal of creating a centralized Persian Empire. No longer is he the Jalayirid Khan, a leftover fragment from the days of the Il-Khanate. Now he is Qasim I, Shahanshah of the Persians. With his direct control of Mazandaran, Gilan, and Hormuz in addition to his own lands around Fars, he is the most powerful Jalayirid ruler since the days of Timur. Fortunately for the Turks, he still faces overly powerful vassal emirs, particularly in Yazd and Tabas, so despite his rapid success Qasim still has a long way to go before being supreme in all his domains.

In E-raq, Bayezid returns to Baghdad, and as the allied armies return to their homelands with his thanks, the people of the capital flood back into their city. The strength of the Turks may now be at a low ebb, but Osman’s reforms to the army still remain. They can, and will, be rebuilt. Given time, the Turks can once again be a great power. And when they do, all know who their target will be. For on the anniversary of Ramsar, Bayezid goes to his father’s grave and swears the Samarkand Oath.

In central Asia, Mahmud is able to take Samarkand before his brother. The two siblings meet in early September at Urumqi, agreeing to rule the Empire between them, Mahmud from Samarkand and Jahangir from Beijing. When they depart to return to their capitals, the brothers swear everlasting pledges of goodwill and friendship. No one is fooled for a second. War will come between the two, sooner or later, and much more likely it will be sooner. Neither will tolerate the other ruling part of their father’s empire.

The key to the inevitable war between the Timurid and Tieh components of Shah Rukh’s empire will be the Kingdom of Urumqi, the half-steppe, half-Chinese state existing on the frontiers of both. Here Mahmud actually has the advantage, as the Urumqi despise Jahangir for his repeated policy of favoring old Shun and Wu officials in the Tieh administration.

But as Samarkand and Beijing arm themselves, the rest of Asia is quiet, as the fighting in the north and in India peter out from lack of activity. However in southeast Asia, Champa shows dangerous signs of insubordination since when Jahangir waives Lanna’s tribute payments (to placate the Hindus) the Champans march in and extort the same payment, only this time all will go to Champa.

But for now there is peace. Though on paper the great empire of Shah Rukh remains, in reality it died with him. Neither Mahmud or Jahangir have credible supporters outside of their current heartlands, no Urumqi collaborators as Shah Rukh had in China. No, the future of that great continent no longer resides with the Lord of Asia. Instead, it belongs to the Lords of Asia. What they do with it, out of the Shadow of Timur, will be their shame, or their glory, alone.


End Part 6: The Lords of Asia

Begin Part 7: Great Halls and Evil Times
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  #2048  
Old April 25th, 2012, 11:30 AM
Grouchio Grouchio is offline
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...

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  #2049  
Old April 25th, 2012, 11:56 AM
frozenpredator frozenpredator is offline
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Seconding Grouchio here.

And i'm kinda sd Shah Rukh died the way he did, rather than at the hands of Vlad Dracula or Bayezid
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  #2050  
Old April 25th, 2012, 12:00 PM
Mathalamus Mathalamus is offline
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well, im interested in how the Romans and ottomans see each other. are they still somewhat neutral or will they try to be friends in this timeline?
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  #2051  
Old April 25th, 2012, 12:12 PM
Arrix85 Arrix85 is online now
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Nice. I'm really interested more on the consequences in the Roman Empire (and its allies) both direct and indirect ones than the struggle between the two brothers (I don't know, the end result seem predictable enough, essentialy a draw which changes nothing). Mahmud will probably manage to screw up big time in some matter to permanently cripple his domain and that should make things easier for the Ottomans (if the Persians don't prove to be too tough) and the Russians.

A region which has attracted my interest, especially since reading the discussion about possibile roman colonies in the philippines islands, is Indonesia. Any chances of an update on the region?
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  #2052  
Old April 25th, 2012, 12:36 PM
Dragos Cel Mare Dragos Cel Mare is offline
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This is epic. I really like Theodoros' haggling.
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  #2053  
Old April 25th, 2012, 12:39 PM
Tapirus Augustus Tapirus Augustus is offline
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Good update, the only thing I think ought to be questioned is the decision by the new Jalyarid lord to start calling himself the King of Kings.

According to Wikipedia
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In Islam, the term "King of Kings" for another human being is prohibited. Narrated in Sahih Bukhari and Muslim, from Abu Hurairah that the Islamic Prophet Muhammad said, "Verily, the worst title is 'King of Kings'; there is no King that has absolute power except Allah". This term is prohibited as there is a similar comparison between the created being and his Creator. This prohibition serve the purpose to glorify Allah alone. The absolute use (the definite article is thus obligatory) of al-Malik, as #4 of the 99 known names of Allah, "The King", taken to imply 'The Sovereign Lord, The One with the complete Dominion, the One Whose Dominion is clear from imperfection' singles the only God out as supreme ruler over all earthly powers; another of these attributes, #84, is Malik Al-Mulk "King of the Realm", taken to mean 'The Eternal Owner of Sovereignty, The One who controls the Dominion and gives dominion to whoever He willed'.
Just something to think about. I don't think it's in the Koran, so they might be able to get away with it.
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  #2054  
Old April 25th, 2012, 12:42 PM
Grouchio Grouchio is offline
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Yes... Could Byzantium (Sorry but it sound cooler to me) be able to found colonies in Indonesia when the Age of Colonization begins?
Also, I demand a brand new map soon! So what happens next in China? Might there soon be a Roman-Ottoman union in the future? A Hellenization of Mesopotamia? Might Vlad Dracula be able to become Emperor someday and found a Dragonian Dynasty with a three headed dragon as their banner?

All heil House Dracula!
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  #2055  
Old April 25th, 2012, 12:45 PM
Dragos Cel Mare Dragos Cel Mare is offline
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(Edit: @Tapirus Augustus) Actually, I think that either the Samanids or the Buyids revived the title "Shahhanshah" during their rule. Also, Akbar the Great of the Mughals had it as one of his titles.
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  #2056  
Old April 25th, 2012, 12:55 PM
Elfwine Elfwine is online now
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Ah, Theodoros.


And while not the ending I expected and hoped for, in a way this is better. Time for the age of steppe barbarians who think they can rule the world to end already.
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  #2057  
Old April 25th, 2012, 01:11 PM
Mathalamus Mathalamus is offline
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to be honest, i don't think Byzantium needs any colonies anywhere. they can expand in their own region quite well. trading posts, yes, full blown colonies with settlers, no. it just sounds wrong in my opinion.
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  #2058  
Old April 25th, 2012, 01:20 PM
Dragos Cel Mare Dragos Cel Mare is offline
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That was my opinion as well, as Greece and Turkey together are enough to make them a Great Power in European Politics. However, retaking Egypt is definitely in the cards, as well as trading posts in the Indian Ocean (although they should give the Hedjaz to the Ottomans, they're awesome).
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  #2059  
Old April 25th, 2012, 01:41 PM
Arrix85 Arrix85 is online now
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That was my opinion as well, as Greece and Turkey together are enough to make them a Great Power in European Politics. However, retaking Egypt is definitely in the cards, as well as trading posts in the Indian Ocean (although they should give the Hedjaz to the Ottomans, they're awesome).
if the Romans take Egypt it would be against their interest to give Hedjaz to the Ottomans (giving them the possibility of choking them out of the Red Sea and with them possibly controlling the future also the Hormuz Strait and central Asia it would be even more stupid). The other alternative, maybe more feasible, is maintaing a weak vassal state (or given the times, a protectorate).
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  #2060  
Old April 25th, 2012, 01:43 PM
brokenman brokenman is online now
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Although the ending was not as I have imagined, it is still great. Shah Ruhk's empire now ceases to be an immediate threat, as China and Samarkand turns to each other.

And now comes the Renaissance, and the urbanization and recovery of the Ottomans.
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