Nazis! In Russia?

[The Ubbergeek]

Like any other religious group, Buddhists are a varied lot... And not everyone act like he should do...

[Verence]

Originally Posted by Max Sinister

Did that guy ever read what Buddha actually was preaching???

Bear in mind that the guy was as mad as a bycicle

[MerryPrankster]

Originally Posted by Verence

Not necessarily the Black Hundreds.. quite a few White generals ended up fighting for the Nazis in WWII most notably Pyotr Krasnov and Andrei Shkuro

How did they end up working for the Nazis? Did the Wehrmacht bust them out of a gulag and give them an opportunity for revenge? Were they forced or intimidated somehow? Or, like Vlasov, did they have some vague notion of playing both sides against the middle?

Considering the Nazis viewed the Slavic peoples as fit only for brute labor, these people would be monumentally stupid to subscribe to Nazi ideology.

[Wendell]

Originally Posted by Max Sinister

Did that guy ever read what Buddha actually was preaching???

Buddhism is more than what Buddha actually preached.

[Ivan Druzhkov]

Originally Posted by MerryPrankster

How did they end up working for the Nazis? Did the Wehrmacht bust them out of a gulag and give them an opportunity for revenge? Were they forced or intimidated somehow? Or, like Vlasov, did they have some vague notion of playing both sides against the middle?

Considering the Nazis viewed the Slavic peoples as fit only for brute labor, these people would be monumentally stupid to subscribe to Nazi ideology.

Well, I know a few White generals fled to Eastern Europe after the RCW wrapped up, so there was certainly no problem in getting your hands on a few of them. I assume that the Nazi Party representative played up the anti-communism angle rather than the "Slavic untermensch" ideology to get these guys to go along. You can go pretty far with anti-communism.

Oh, and concerning the Mad Baron's religion, he did look at some of the classic texts, but he appears to have combined them with some odd bits and pieces of apocalyptic Christianity. IIRC, he operated on the belief that the best way to get people on the wheel of life up to nirvana was to liberate them from this earthly plane as fast as possible. Preferably with the aid of a hatchet.

[Verence]

Originally Posted by Ivan Druzhkov

Well, I know a few White generals fled to Eastern Europe after the RCW wrapped up, so there was certainly no problem in getting your hands on a few of them.

That the guys I meant, Krasnov and Shkuro

[Wozza]

Originally Posted by Verence

That the guys I meant, Krasnov and Shkuro

Is this Krasnov Ataman of the Cossacks?
Who first tried to suppress the Bolsheviks? I often wonder what would have happened if Kerensky had done his deal with him before the storming of the winter palace.

Curiously my flatmate met his granddaughter about 18 months ago.

[Blackbeard]

Here is a rough TL

1916- Nicholas II hears of Lenin and his plans, and executes Lenin

1917- Red revolutionaries try an unsuccsessful coup, captured participants are publicly executed, the Russian populus is afraid of Nicholas II

1918- Russia stayed in WW I so they have captured German scientists, and are now technologically moving forward.

1925- The Russian "Age of Reformation" is over, under Nicholas II's quickly becoming fascist monarchy

1929- Russian province of Bavaria, gained in WW I, tries a Red coup, unsuccsessfully. More are publicly executed.

1934- The self-proclaimed Joan of Arc of Russia, Helga Miskchevo
leads a six-month democratic coup. Helga and her core followers are publicly, to the alarm of the US.

1936- Non-violent protesters pushing for a democratic state are attacked in the Throne's Square (Red Square) by Russian military. The US is now on bad relations with Russia.

1939- After democratic protests are continually put down with violence, and the Russian population being made to fear Nicholas II, the US declares war on Russia, calling it "Not a monarchy, but a fascist nation"

1940- Germany joins the Russo-American war, Britain joins against the US and Germany, after pressuring from Russia.

1941- France joins the Allies (US, Germany) Weak Austro-Hungarian empire joins the Axis (Russia, Britain)

1942- Spain joins the Allies, and another weak empire, the Ottomans join the Axis. Canada, having allied itself with Britain, joins the Axis.
The theatres of fighting are the North(Kamchatka, etc), the US-Canadian border, and the Germanic Front.

Have a nice World War II, also this should be moved to the After 1900s forum

[Superdude]

Lenin was sent to Russia in 1917...


And I do NOT think that Russia will gain anything excpt the ottoman empire and the Austro-Hungarians, and some of German East Prussia. Russia controlling Bavaria will not be in the interests of Britain and France

[Imajin]

Originally Posted by Superdude

Lenin was sent to Russia in 1917...


And I do NOT think that Russia will gain anything excpt the ottoman empire and the Austro-Hungarians, and some of German East Prussia. Russia controlling Bavaria will not be in the interests of Britain and France

And Russia controlling the Bosphorus (when they gain "the ottoman empire") is in the interest of Britain and France? Not to mention the Russians would have little to no interest in annexing the vast majority of Austro-Hungarian territory, probably taking Galicia and the Bukowina at most... (This also helps them that the new border would be a natural line, if I recall)

[Max Sinister]

The Russians would be very interested in a Czechoslovakian satellite, I'd guess.

[Verence]

Originally Posted by Wozza

Is this Krasnov Ataman of the Cossacks?
Who first tried to suppress the Bolsheviks? I often wonder what would have happened if Kerensky had done his deal with him before the storming of the winter palace.

Curiously my flatmate met his granddaughter about 18 months ago.

That's the guy!! Funnily enough his nephew Miguel Krasnov was brought up in South America and was involved in Pinochet's coup in Chile. He was put on trial for his involvment a few years ago but was released last year due to lack of evidence

[Wozza]

Originally Posted by Verence

That's the guy!! Funnily enough his nephew Miguel Krasnov was brought up in South America and was involved in Pinochet's coup in Chile. He was put on trial for his involvment a few years ago but was released last year due to lack of evidence

Yes, my flatmate got the e-mail today: Darya Krasnov(a?) is checking with her grandmother that they are related!
But yes wiki says they are.

That is a lot of dubious right wing causes to be connected to.

[Max Sinister]

Originally Posted by Verence

That's the guy!! Funnily enough his nephew Miguel Krasnov was brought up in South America and was involved in Pinochet's coup in Chile.

It runs in the family, eh?

[W. T. Sherman]

Originally Posted by MerryPrankster

In his last writings, Hitler claimed the Slavs had proven themselves worthy by defeating the Germans and that they were the new ruling race (I think).

WTF? Sounds like bullshit to me. Source, please.

[Blackbeard]

Alright then put every year in the TL, forward a year execept during WWI

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by Imajin

And Russia controlling the Bosphorus (when they gain "the ottoman empire") is in the interest of Britain and France? Not to mention the Russians would have little to no interest in annexing the vast majority of Austro-Hungarian territory, probably taking Galicia and the Bukowina at most... (This also helps them that the new border would be a natural line, if I recall)

Did I ever say that the Russians would control the Bosphorous or the vast majority of Austro-Hungarian land?

No. I did not.

Also, I never said that the Russians gained the Ottoman Empire. No, they just gain territory from the Ottomans, probably some in Eastern Anatolia.

[Max Sinister]

Originally Posted by W. T. Sherman

Originally Posted by MerryPrankster
"In his last writings, Hitler claimed the Slavs had proven themselves worthy by defeating the Germans and that they were the new ruling race (I think)."

WTF? Sounds like bullshit to me. Source, please.

It's true. Try to watch the recent German film about Hitler, "The Downfall", the sentence is in it. Hitler was angry at the Germans because they couldn't win the war, so he said "those Germans who survive are less worthy, because all the good ones have fallen; the Slavs have proven to be stronger, they will own the future".

[Verence]

Originally Posted by MerryPrankster

How did they end up working for the Nazis? Did the Wehrmacht bust them out of a gulag and give them an opportunity for revenge? Were they forced or intimidated somehow? Or, like Vlasov, did they have some vague notion of playing both sides against the middle?

Considering the Nazis viewed the Slavic peoples as fit only for brute labor, these people would be monumentally stupid to subscribe to Nazi ideology.

Pavel Bermondt-Avalov led a force of Russians who had become German prisioners in WWI. They were released on the understanding that they would fight the Bolshies in the the RCW

[Superdude]

Originally Posted by Max Sinister

It's true. Try to watch the recent German film about Hitler, "The Downfall", the sentence is in it. Hitler was angry at the Germans because they couldn't win the war, so he said "those Germans who survive are less worthy, because all the good ones have fallen; the Slavs have proven to be stronger, they will own the future".

Also in "Barbarossa: The Russo-German Conflict 1941-45", and "The Fall of Berlin"