AH Challenge: ACW more like WWI

What types of pol, eco, tech, soc changes qould've been required during the ACW yrs for the conflict to have looked to a greater extent like WWI than OTL ? Many historians have already stipulated that the ACW was the 1st Modern War, in terms of tech shifting the advantage on the battlefield fully from attacker to defender (including re development of trench warfare and higher casualties among attacking forces), and the employment on a largescale of such new military technology as breechloading repeating weapons, improved artillery, railroads, steamships, balloons, ironclad warships, and naval mines. How could the ACW have resembled the Western Front even more, with such possible aspects as largescale employment of machineguns, specifically-designed defensive items such as barbed wire or landmines, poison gas and armoured vehicles (is this last factor a bit too ASB) ?

On the issue of chemical weapons during the CW, I remember reading a book on NBC warfare back in hischool (10 yrs ago now) which stated that apparently in 1864 Pres Lincoln was approached with a plan to utilise chlorine gas-filled shells in the Union arty, but he rejected such new weapons as inhumane. Could anybody imagine an ATL CW where such a significant development did take place ?
 
Well, maybe earlier acceptance of the breechloader could help this. Also, Gatling guns that are used wide spread by Union and Condfederacey, and chlorine gas that was devolped earlier on could also probally cause a stalemate.
 
Mikey said:
Well, maybe earlier acceptance of the breechloader could help this. Also, Gatling guns that are used wide spread by Union and Condfederacey, and chlorine gas that was devolped earlier on could also probally cause a stalemate.

How about this for a suggested timeline?

1718--James Puckle patents a precursor to the machine gun. This is a flintlock gun, mounted on a tripod, which has a revolving cylinder holding nine rounds. The cylinder is manually turned, and the gun is capable of firing at the astounding rate of 10 rounds a minute! It is not adopted, but the patent remains in the Patent Office.

1770--James Watt, Scottish inventor who will eventually invent the first truly practical steam engine, finds the patent for the Puckle Gun in the Patent Office. He is intrigued by the idea, and begins (in his spare time) to dabble with it, trying to improve it.

1774--Karl Wilhelm Scheele, Swedish chemist, discovers that by heating manganese dioxide and hydrochloric acid, chlorine gas is produced. There are no immediate applications.

1776--Captain Patrick Ferguson, 70th Regiment of Foot, British Royal Army, patents the Ferguson Rifle, a breech-loading rifle with a rate of fire of approximately 7 rounds a minute.

1776-1781--The Ferguson Rifle is distributed more widely to British forces during the American Revolution than in OTL (approximately 10% of British troops have them), but political considerations and conservatism on the part of British Ordnance officers (who don't want the expense of replacing all the servicable existing long-arms with these new-fangled contraptions) prevent it from being issued more widely. However, even though they don't change the final outcome of the war (a few battles do go differently), they make enough of an impact that after the war, the British Army continues production of them. Some other European armies (France and Spain, notably) develop their own versions, and the United States War Department orders copies to be made to equip the United States Army.

1789--The French Revolution begins.

1790--Colonel Patrick Ferguson (who, unlike in OTL, survived the war), develops a kit which allows the standard British long arm (the Brown Bess Musket) to be converted to a breech loader. He proposes that all existing Brown Bess Muskets be converted, rebored and rifled. His proposal is accepted. By 1795 all British infantry are armed with some version of the Ferguson Rifle (either a conversion or an original). They and the United States Army are the first to be completely armed with breechloading rifles.

1795-1815--The Napoleonic Wars. Breech-loading rifles see action on a truly large scale for the first time, as not only the British, but also the French and Spanish armies have them in large numbers (only the British are using them exclusively, however), and the Prussians, Russians, and Austrians will adopt them by the end of the period. Napoleon proves to be just as capable a commander under these conditions as in OTL, but in the end is defeated, as in OTL. As a subset to the main conflict in Europe, the War of 1812 is fought between Britain and the U.S., again, with both armies armed with breech-loading (and virtually identical) rifles. The war ends in 1815, results are much the same as OTL, but casualties are higher.

1807--Reverend A.J. Forsyth patents fulminating powder, which allows the development of percussion ignition systems for firearms.

1811--Eli Whitney invents the process of mass production of firearms with interchangeable parts. This will soon be adopted by the United States, but doesn't immediately catch on with other countries.

1815--Percussion cap invented.

1817--James Watt, who has been experimenting with and improving on the Puckle Gun for over 40 years on an off and on basis, demonstrates the results to the British Ordnance Department. Watt's improvements and changes in design have been such that he has, in fact, invented a new gun. It is a hopper-fed gun (the hopper has 2 compartments, holding paper cartridges and percussion caps), with four revolving barrels, operated by a hand crank. It has a rate of fire of approximately 300 rounds per minute. The Ordnance officers are impressed, and an order is placed for 50 guns (there is still a large "old guard" in the Ordnance Department which argues that such a high rate of fire will be "wasteful of ammunition," and these entrenched bureaucrats prevent larger orders from being placed). These will see service in various colonial campaigns over the next few decades, mainly in defense of static positions (as they are extremely heavy and bulky, they are not yet suitable for field operations with maneuver forces).

1819--James Watt dies. His company continues to produce his gun for the British military.

1820-1850--The various militaries digest the lessons of the Napoleonic Wars. Over the course of the 1820s and 1830s, most armies abandon their brightly coloured uniforms and adopt various less conspicuous shades such as Khaki, Olive green, and green-gray. New doctrines and tactics are also developed to take advantage of the breech-loading rifle's capabilities and to minimize casualties (fighting in open order, firing from the prone position, etc). Breech-loading rifles are further developed. Flintlocks are replaced by percussion caps, and the bolt-action and other successful designs are developed in the 1830s. Gradually rifles based on the Ferguson system are phased out. No major wars are fought in Europe during this time period.

1846-1847--The Mexican War. Both sides are armed with breech-loading rifles...the U.S. with percussion, bolt-action rifles and Mexico with old flintlocks based on the Ferguson system. (Mexico inherited it's breech-loaders from Spain, and has continued manufacturing the old pattern rifles for lack of ability to make anything better). The new doctrines and tactics developed in the 1820s and 1830s are tested and further refined. War ends a year sooner, but with the same results as in OTL.

1848--First practical metallic cartridges invented in France.

1853-1855--The Crimean War. The Watt Guns are used for the first time in combat against a major European power (by the British against the Russians). In the interval between 1817 and now, the design has been considerably refined, it is much lighter, and is capable of being mounted on a tripod like the original Puckle Gun, or on a small wheeled carriage which is drawn by a single horse or a team of six men. It makes a dramatic debut when a major Russian attack is broken by a group of five of these guns at the Battle of the Alma in 1854, but due to the small numbers available (the conservative British Ordnance Department has never allowed more than a handful to be purchased), they do not prove a decisive weapon in this conflict. Observers from all the world's major armies note their effectiveness, however, and their governments are soon feverishly working to produce and equivalent.

1857--Dr. Richard Gatling offers his design, which is very similar to the Watt Gun (although developed completely independently) to the U.S. Army. It is accepted, and goes into production at Harper's Ferry, Virginia and Springfield, Massachusetts.

1861-1866--The War Between the States (American Civil War). The Southern States of the United States secede and form the Confederate States of America. The Confederates seize arsenals all over the South, including the major arsenal at Harpers Ferry, where breech-loading rifles and Gatling Guns are produced. On April 12, 1861 a dispute over the status of Fort Sumter explodes into war. At the beginning of the war, both armies are armed with single-shot, breechloading, bolt-action rifles and Gatling Guns, firing metallic cartridges. By the end of the war, both have introduced magazine rifles (mostly conversions of their single-shot bolt action rifles, with tubular magazines slung underneath the barrel), greatly improving the rate of fire. The war quickly stalemates as both sides discover that infantry attacks against defended positions are virtually suicidal. The two armies dig elaborate trench systems, and only the vastness of the border between the two nations allows maneuver to remain a part of the war after early 1862 (Nathan Bedford Forrest, for example, becomes almost a legend in his own time, leading daring cavalry raids on unentrenched Union flank and rear area forces). Casualties are horrendous...almost 1 million Union dead and 400,000 Confederate dead (the Confederates do most of the defending and the Yankees most of the attacking, which creates the great disparity) by the end of 1865. In late 1864, Abraham Lincoln is offered an artillery shell filled with chlorine gas, which he orders into production. Sufficient quantities are not available until late 1865, however. But when they are finally used, they prove to be a decisive weapon, and provide the final breakthrough which results in the capture of Richmond in January 1866. The Confederacy surrenders shortly afterward.
 
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Didn't Eli Whitney invent interchangable parts earlier than that?

And, although horrible books which I'm ashamed to bring up, the Stars & Stripes trilogy made me think: could advanced steam engine technology have made armored vehicles available for the Civil War?
 
Kuralyov said:
Didn't Eli Whitney invent interchangable parts earlier than that?

And, although horrible books which I'm ashamed to bring up, the Stars & Stripes trilogy made me think: could advanced steam engine technology have made armored vehicles available for the Civil War?

Whitney started working on interchangeable parts about ten years prior to the date cited in the timeline, but they they weren't really practical until 1811.

As for the armored vehicles, I don't really think they were practical at this time period (we have had several threads on that subject, and the arguments against them presented there were very persuasive, at least to me).
 
Melvin Loh said:
What types of pol, eco, tech, soc changes qould've been required during the ACW yrs for the conflict to have looked to a greater extent like WWI than OTL ?

What if you jostled time enough to move slaves out of the fields and into factories? Imagine a South that didn't fall quite so far behind the North in the development of its industry. Bump up their industrial capacity some and what might you get? A better armed, better supplied South stands an improved chance of outright winning by dint of leadership. If the North beats back the Confederates early offensives, maybe we see the situation settle into trench warfare like WWI and we see efforts by both sides to win by developing new technologies or refining existing technologies in order to create a breakthrough.
 
How could the ACW have resembled the Western Front even more, with such possible aspects as largescale employment of machineguns, specifically-designed defensive items such as barbed wire or landmines, poison gas and armoured vehicles (is this last factor a bit too ASB) ? by Melvin Loh

I think during the ACW that Confederate Agents used Greek Fire to burn 10 New York Buildings and Confederate Gen Gabriel Rains proposed using Greek gas against Union troops beseging Vicksburg
 
Thanx for this Thread.
I think I will use some of it in my feild Hand Confederacy TL [when I get back to It]
I think a Slave based Cottage industry, growing On the Plantations as the South trys to compete with the north's Factories, without giving up their labor system.
 

Grey Wolf

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ConfederateFly said:
I think during the ACW that Confederate Agents used Greek Fire to burn 10 New York Buildings and Confederate Gen Gabriel Rains proposed using Greek gas against Union troops beseging Vicksburg

Intriguing, what exactly is greek gas ? Made from burning oil ?

Grey Wolf
 
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