Walter_Kaufmann said:
Anyways, had the kingdoms of Judah and Israel (can we agree to call them *Israel, just to make things simpler?) survived, I suspect that the entire Jewish religion would be much stronger for two reasons. A) Having a Jewish Empire, like *Israel can only be a good example for the religion.
Yes, "Israel" would be the appropriate name for the united Hebrew kingdom/Empire. I would agree with you that the religion would be stronger than in OTL, but the central problem faced by the Hebrews was the "Chosen People" concept which prevented them from mixing with other peoples. Indeed, in the Book of Judges, I believe, Hebrew men were ordered not to marry non-Hebrew women. There simply were not enough Hebrews to maintain a large empire down to the time of Jesus unless something is done to expand the population base. The Hasmoneans did that by forcibly converting non-Jews (such as the Idumaeans or Edomites...Herod was a converted Idumaean, for example).
Also, it should be mentioned that Yahwehism (it wouldn't be "Judaism" in this ATL world...that term arose because of the destruction of the Kingdom of Israel, which left the Yahweh religion as the religion of the tribe of Judah, only, thus "Judaism") will be much different in this ATL. Judaism as it exists today was heavily influenced by the decline and fall of the Hebrew Empire in OTL and the later destruction of it's successor states, Israel and Judah. Some of the things that made Judaism so resilient and enabled it to survive (syagogue worship, rabbinic judaism, and other things) occurred because of the Babylonian Captivity and the later Diaspora. Would these things have occurred in this ATL?
Walter_Kaufmann said:
B) With Jesus being the King of *Israel, Christianity would never have developed and, thus, there'd be less competition with alt-Judaism.
Well, that depends. Certainly Christianity as we know it would not have developed. But if Jesus really was (as I and most Christians believe) the son of God, and was sent here to save mankind, then something else might have developed. Possibly Yahwehism itself would have developed into something resembling Christianity.
Walter_Kaufmann said:
Expect to see another religion (besides Christianity) arise. Perhaps here's a good time to incorporate that thread about Mithraism. Or, if you want to get even more different, perhaps we could see Zoroastrianism arise to compete with alt-Judaism.
Agreed.
Walter_Kaufmann said:
I'd expect *Israel to become a successful, powerful force in the Mediterranean. It would be good if *Israel owned a more fertile region to produce food. Expect a play for Egypt and the Nile.
Possibly. They might also go for dominance of Mesopotamia.
Walter_Kaufmann said:
In a couple hundred years, we'll see major wars between *Israel and Persia. These wars could prove to be awful for the Kingdom of *Israel or they could allow it to become even more powerful. I'd expect *Israel and Persia to break one another's back, allowing for Greece to arise as the most powerful force in the Mediterranean.
That is a definite possibility.
Walter_Kaufmann said:
Expect eventual Grecian unification and no fighting with Persia. I'd expect Greece to grow have a relative amount of power to OTL's Roman Empire.
I have to disagree there...the Greeks NEVER unified in OTL. They were finally conquered by an outside force (Macedon) which even then did not control all of Greece (Sparta remained independent). Given the pressures they were under from outside forces which would have lead just about anyone else in history to unify, I don't see that anything in this ATL changes which would lead to Greek unification. I still think Rome will arise on schedule, and will swallow up the Greeks just as in OTL. Possibly we have a Rome versus Israel rivalry which parallel the Rome/Parthia rivalry in OTL?
Walter_Kaufmann said:
We'd see a more Eastern-oriented Europe in later years. Expect the Romanian and Bulgarian areas (forgot the general name for both) to become major powers in later years, much like OTL's France and Britain. Expect Russia to be more Ukrainian based (will Russia finally have warm water port?) I expect to see a slower rise of power in Western Europe lacking the Roman influence.
I don't see any of this necessarily follows at all...
Anyone else want to pick up where I left off?[/QUOTE]